3D engine database suggestions

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Feb 28, 2006 at 10:00

I have a 3D game comparison (hopefully will be a database someday) and am impressed with the 3D engine database but think it needs to be presented/outputted better to more easily compare engines:

  • List the engines in tabular form (like my comparison table) without cluttering up each engine in blocks, making it hard to navigate (use letters instead of numbers for pages, too). Each engine could be clicked to see its full info, if desired.
  • Add checkboxes to select multiple features (and engines) at a time instead of just one and having the essentually useless block listing as described above.
  • Add commonly used descriptions to the selection fields instead of similarly-worded phrases: add “WYSIWYG” to editor list, for example.

I wouldn’t mind linking to this database from my 3D game comparison but the data needs to be formatted better to easily compare multiple engines. Perhaps we could merge our content, too, or at least share info to complement each other…

27 Replies

Please log in or register to post a reply.

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 05, 2006 at 11:49

I don’t think that engine comparison is the name of the game here (pardon the irrelivant pun). The function of the 3D engine database is the provide people who are looking for an engine with certan features, that engine. It is the finest resource of its kind on the internet and I personally like it the way it is.

However I would like the ability to add a bit of formatting to my reviews? Anyone?

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 05, 2006 at 12:17

Um, how else to find a 3D engine than to compare it to others? Comparison shopping is nothing new and applies just as easily to 3D engines as it does to any product.

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 06, 2006 at 06:18

Not really, a lot of features of a 3D engine are not needed, or needed to a slight extent. The 3D engine database provides a good list of all of the those features and allows one to select an engine that they feel has the features they want, rather than one which is, for example, more “powerful” (which in itself is hard to define) than another.

Take for example, the F.E.A.R Engine (modified Jupiter EX if I recall correctly). It may be better when compared to the Battlefield 1942 engine, but if one wants to make a game that has vast outdoor extenses, they would want inbuilt terrain rendering (which if the F.E.A.R Engine was purpose built would not be apparent)and the Battlefield Engine would be more suited, thus a comparative list would only be misleading.

I say the engine database is good how it is. Also, I found your database, while somwhat informative, incomplete and confusing.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 06, 2006 at 07:39

@Methulah

Not really, a lot of features of a 3D engine are not needed, or needed to a slight extent. The 3D engine database provides a good list of all of the those features and allows one to select an engine that they feel has the features they want, rather than one which is, for example, more “powerful” (which in itself is hard to define) than another. Take for example, the F.E.A.R Engine (modified Jupiter EX if I recall correctly). It may be better when compared to the Battlefield 1942 engine, but if one wants to make a game that has vast outdoor extenses, they would want inbuilt terrain rendering (which if the F.E.A.R Engine was purpose built would not be apparent)and the Battlefield Engine would be more suited, thus a comparative list would only be misleading.

But if the engine had a note about terrain/outdoor capabilities a comparison would reveal that feature too. I have that feature in my 3D game comparison table.
@Methulah

I say the engine database is good how it is. Also, I found your database, while somwhat informative, incomplete and confusing.

Confusing how? It’s not meant to be a comprehensive 3D engine comparison, but just what effects I’ve noticed over the years. Yes, there could be a lot more technical things like BSP, etc, but I don’t think that’s quite relevant–that’s where your database comes in (and why I suggested a merge). ;)

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 07, 2006 at 06:23

No, it’s just that I find the database confusing in the way it’s layed out. It seems like it is hard to get at the information you want. I understand it is about that games, not the engines, but I find it difficult to (for instance) compare Half-Life to Jedi Knight 2.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 07, 2006 at 06:26

Oh, yes, that’s because it’s NOT a database (yet) but just a table I manually created. I WANT to make it a database so specific games/features CAN be compared…

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 09, 2006 at 22:13

Well, good luck to you then.

5dd1c9c3c97afe70f7e41a3cc9b092f2
0
FlamingHawk 101 Mar 14, 2006 at 19:13

Yes, good luck

Engine comparison is not what the 3D engines database is for, and it’s also unethical

885a3ffe62609ebdcdecd72365aa7a3b
0
darqSHADOW 101 Mar 14, 2006 at 20:28

You also end up comparing apples to oranges that way. Take for example Torque vs TV3D – these two are the #1 and #2 engines on the list. Torque is a game engine, with a built-in scripting system. TV3D is an SDK, and requires programming. Which is better? Depends on what you need, and what you want. Can you program using Torque? Sure, but you have to modify the core. Can you script with TV3D? Sure, but you need to choose your own scripting language and tie it into your framework. Can they be directly compared? Not really, as they are both targetting different markets.

DS

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 14, 2006 at 21:25

@FlamingHawk

Engine comparison is not what the 3D engines database is for, and it’s also unethical

Huh? Unethical? How? That’s just silly.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 14, 2006 at 21:27

@darqSHADOW

You also end up comparing apples to oranges that way. Take for example Torque vs TV3D – these two are the #1 and #2 engines on the list. Torque is a game engine, with a built-in scripting system. TV3D is an SDK, and requires programming. Which is better? Depends on what you need, and what you want. Can you program using Torque? Sure, but you have to modify the core. Can you script with TV3D? Sure, but you need to choose your own scripting language and tie it into your framework. Can they be directly compared? Not really, as they are both targetting different markets.

Um, you just compared them, silly. Apples and oranges are fruit but they are still not completely the same. Hence, they can still be compared. In fact, ANYTHING can be compared if it even has the SLIGHTEST bit of difference. Why? Because comparison isn’t just limited to SIMILIARITIES but also apples to DIFFERENCES as well. Fine, so some engines have an SDK and others can only script. That’s is but ONE of MANY aspects of engines so do mindlessly say the other aspects can’t be compared is just silly and incorrect.

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 16, 2006 at 09:11

Look, I think what darqSHADOW was saying is that apples and oranges are so dissimillar (as a TGE and TV3D) that it would be futile. Sure, he just compared them, but anyone intersted can glean that information within seconds from the 3D engine database or they would already know.

Maybe for the average gamer, a set of features isn’t enough and they need comparison so that they have someting to relate to. Remember that the 3D Engine database is aimed at developers, people who know the function of engine and know what they need. They need certain features, not “an engine similar to Quake 3”.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 16, 2006 at 09:45

What’s futile to you may not be futile to someone else, Meth. Apples and oranges are more similar than they are dissimilar. Just because this database is aimed at developers doesn’t mean all developers are created equally (that’s for sure!) and know everything there is to about 3D engines. Hence the comparison database in the first place! How do you know a developer isn’t looking for an engine similar to Quake 3? Why limit your database and make it hard to use when it could be easier to use and used by MORE developers (casual AND seasoned)? You only limit yourself with that kind of narrow-minded thinking.

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 17, 2006 at 23:55

I still don’t think you understand. A 3D game cannot be made by someone who doesn’t know these features. Developers don’t have to know everything there is to know about an engine (even the engine’s developers don’t know that), but if they want to select the best engine for their project, they need to know about engine features. There are many sites they can use to learn (and after all, that’s what it’s all about), but they will need this knowledge if they are to usefully and productfully use their engine.

Why would a developer be looking for an engine similar to quake 3. Why not looking for one that as fast BSP rendering, is GPL has render-to-texture and texture mapping. They might not want it to be OpenGL, so they run a search for those features in DirectX. Rather than clicking Quake 3 and selecting “engines similar” which is never going to do justice to the diversity of engine fatures and intended purposes.

About apples and oranges. What do they have in common. They are fruit, they stimulate the taste buds that recieve sweet taste. Apart from that? Not a whole lot. Dissimiar? Oranges are round, oranges contain citric acid, orange skins are generally not regarded as edible, apple pips are brown, oranges are orange, whilst apples can vary in colour, a green apple may be ripe, whereas a green orange is unripe. I could go on a for a lot longer, but I hope you get my point. Also, I’m sorry to continue the analogy, but there you go.

Anyway, I think there is a place for your comparison and a place for the 3D Engine Database, I just don’t think that place is together.

5e302c1e9f6c6643bef6573bc52882ec
0
DracheHexe 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 04:54

@Methulah

Anyway, I think there is a place for your comparison and a place for the 3D Engine Database, I just don’t think that place is together.

I don’t know if that’s specifically true. While I know what Eep² wants to do is quite a bit different from the purpose of the database here, there is a marginal bit of truth to what Eep² says.

To be able to have a side by side comparison of two or more engines would be useful. Check the boxes next to the engines you want to see and they both show up side by side to compare. I think it is unneccesary, but it would be handy. I also think it might be very helpful to have a way to check multiple features to bring up all the engines that support those features. Getting a list of all engines with “x” is fine, but getting a list of all engines with “x” & “y” would be :cool2:.

:yes:

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 06:02

Try the “advanced search” option in the 3D engine database. It allows you to display all engines with any amount of features. That way you can get engines that have the whole alphabet! :D

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 06:08

A mostly useless display, however. At least have a way to compare multiple engines in a table or something. Mindlessly showing all engine stats at once in a long page is annoying, too. At least put the engine names in a list that can be clicked to go to the appropriate engine…

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 10:41

It does. At least you should use the engine database before bashing it. The advanced search feature generated a list of the engines that match the features you chose, with some additional content, depicting the basic features of that engine. Then, you are free to click on the name and go to a more in-depth page with images.

Remember, choosing an engine isn’t an everyday thing. A person might do it twice in their lifetime, it doesn’t need to be simplified of quick.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 11:17

<sigh> You just don’t understand, Meth. I am talking about JUST listing the engine NAMES with NO details. Have YOU used YOUR engine? It’s quite a pain-in-the-ass to search and use, actually. It DESPERATELY needs better presentation…

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 12:45

Why just list names with no details. What the hell does that tell me? That I should chose an engine titled SuperShaderPowerPolyPump4000 3D over one called Open Scene Graph? Details need to be shown, and most searches I have done through the engine database (not a whole lot, I found the engine I wanted very fast, and haven’t needed to search since) I have returned a lot of engines. I don’t want to have to click on the link of every engine to find out about it, just those that look and sound like what I want.

No, I think you don’t get it. The 3D Engine Database is awesome as it is (though formatting would be nice on the engine reviews), and I’m pretty sure that others think so too, seeing as it is the engine database, respected by almost every indie (or otherwise) game development community there is.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 12:54

I actually get it more than you know. I’m simply trying to make YOU get it. Are you seeing, yet, why a comparison table would be a better presentation of engine features–specifically in a feature search result?

Anyway, an engine name list doesn’t have to REPLACE the partial/full engine info block list; but just engine names WOULD help in navigation (and a table would help even more).

Yes, the database is good…but it could be better.

0684f9d33f52fa189aad7ac9e8c87510
0
baldurk 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 14:02

I think both of you could do with taking a break from arguing about this. You’re obviously not going to convince each other over a matter of differing opinions.

5e302c1e9f6c6643bef6573bc52882ec
0
DracheHexe 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 15:39

@Methulah

Try the “advanced search” option in the 3D engine database.

Well, I’ll be damned……:blush:

@Eep²

but just engine names WOULD help in navigation

I’m not sure how it would. Having a list with engine names only goes so far as “click the name and see features of engine”. That’s a simplistic and limited result. People don’t come to this page looking for info on “x” or “y” engine, they look for engines that fit with what they know or want to learn. The “pick a feature(s) see the engines” is more efficient than “pick an engine see the features”.

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 22, 2006 at 21:19

But it is so much fun.

Anyway, baldurk is right, we aren’t going to convince each other, and even if we did, it isn’t like that is going to change anything.

5e302c1e9f6c6643bef6573bc52882ec
0
DracheHexe 101 Mar 23, 2006 at 02:46

@Methulah

…we aren’t going to convince each other, and even if we did, it isn’t like that is going to change anything.

Hey, just like congress! :)

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Mar 23, 2006 at 09:02

Yeah, like congress. I think that rule is uniform everywhere though. Oh well.

B7939158227e40a3b865fc0b1837c2be
0
Eep_ 101 Jul 10, 2007 at 11:01

I still think a table/matrix is the way to present this database, optionally, of course. Check out the CMS Matrix for a matrix of content management systems, as an example–and the network of matrix-related websites at The Compare Stuff Network. I still want to create a game comparison database…