Project Hosting?

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ProgramWizard 101 Dec 29, 2005 at 17:40

The TripleBuffer thread got me thinking: what if you guys offered hosting for game projects? Like what Sourceforge does. I haven’t seen any other gamedev sites do it, so it would really set devmaster apart from the crowd.

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Onikhaosifix 101 Dec 29, 2005 at 18:30

And what if most of those projects were to be cancelled half-way? That would waste alot of space that the admin(s) have to pay for. It’s too risky.

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monjardin 102 Dec 29, 2005 at 20:35

What’s wrong with SourceForge? If it ain’t broke…

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Onikhaosifix 101 Dec 29, 2005 at 22:48

@monjardin

What’s wrong with SourceForge? If it ain’t broke…

CVS is a nightmare.

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moe 101 Dec 29, 2005 at 23:40

I think the iotd’s do a good job in that regard. It also assures that the projects are completed. But it would be great if there were some space where you could upload the project for those who don’t have their own webspace. Then these people could still send an iotd including a downloadable exe.

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Reedbeta 168 Dec 30, 2005 at 00:33

@Onikhaosifix

CVS is a nightmare.

Absolutely. Subversion is much better…

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ProgramWizard 101 Dec 30, 2005 at 12:38

@Onikhaosifix

And what if most of those projects were to be cancelled half-way? That would waste alot of space that the admin(s) have to pay for. It’s too risky.

If a project is inactive for a set amount of time, then that project would just be deleted.

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roel 101 Dec 30, 2005 at 13:19

I think it is a great idea, but I think that it will be abused as well. Maybe a protection can help, like some minimum number of (useful) posts here in the forums. When people are given a fixed amount of space, I don’t think that the space will be really expensive, I think that bandwith is more an issue.

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ProgramWizard 101 Dec 30, 2005 at 13:47

That’s an idea. Perhaps only people with the title valued member can upload files and organize teams? How big of an issue would space be; is devmaster on a private server or a shared hosting account?

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Jynks 101 Dec 30, 2005 at 22:02

An easy solution to web space is to simply install a torrent tracker into this board. It isn’t to much space to make a extra section on the forum for projects, then inside that have a forum for each project. Keep the member forums as a sub forum because it might get large and you would want to separate it from the main forum for neatness and load times.

The users can host any and all files of any size they like simply through torrents. You make a release and everyone downloads it at once anyway right.. torrents are made for exactly this kind of “release” style files. I am sure many users of the board would be happy to leave their client open after downloading something for a bit to help punch the file around.

Devmaster.net
        Programming and Development
             General Development
             Graphics Theory and Programming
             Maths & Physics
             Languages
             Sound and Music Programming
             3D Engines
             Game Design
             A.I
        General
             Devmaster lounge
             Suggestions and Feedback
             Personal Announcements
        Hosted Projects
             TrippleBuffer
         Member Projects            
              Project {X}
              Project {X}
              Project {X}
              Project {X}
              Project {X}
              etc etc etc

Depending on how much the admins want to do it they could even make each project a subfourm and have fourms inside it .. like so

         Member Projects            
              Project {X}
                   Announcment / Showcase
                   Discussion

I used to run a forum with a torrent tracker ages ago when I was working on a collaborated cartoon. I still have the site though it is cleaned up awaiting when I get my new hobbie project fully underway (namely a computer game)

So the site is stripped down and empty, I will eventually get a new domain for it but no rush… still it is a fully functioning tracker and forum you guys are welcome to use it if you like.

http://theanimationclub.net

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anubis 101 Dec 30, 2005 at 23:35

I don’t exactly know how much space we have available, but ultimately the descision would be with garagegames, who are providing our serverspace. Personally I don’t really like the idea, since projects are likely to get abandoned. Additionally there would be considerable administrative work piling up. Abuse would have to be prevented, etc.

Also you have to think about traffic and not only about space. If devmaster were to become a site where people would organize their code and publish whole games that would be likely to increase a lot.

Publishing some small binary with your daily image shouldn’t be a problem I reckon, but giving people space for whole projects… I dunno.

That’s an idea. Perhaps only people with the title valued member can upload files and organize teams?

That’s only a couple hundred posts and won’t tell you much. Granted the post count to get that status could be raised.

edit : I’m not saying it can’t happen. I just have serious doubts about the idea

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Onikhaosifix 101 Dec 30, 2005 at 23:53

I knew it. Devmaster has so much limitation compared to gamedev.net that has a game showcase and other big stuff. Before devmaster could even consider ideas like this and my idea for a game showcase(which was denied) they would have to make money somehow. After that they could have more control on their site and basically do whatever they want.

For starters they could open up an online store which sells commercial game engines and multimedia tools(3DS Max, Photoshop, etc.) and probably work on a deal with distributors and companies that develop these products(like keep a certain percentage from sales and give them the rest). After a couple of months or several years you guys would probably have more bread than gamedev.net :)

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SamuraiCrow 101 Dec 31, 2005 at 01:04

Has anyone here looked into http://www.berlios.de for hosting?

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Onikhaosifix 101 Dec 31, 2005 at 05:18

@SamuraiCrow

Has anyone here looked into http://www.berlios.de for hosting?

Hey, thanks for the link.

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eddie 101 Dec 31, 2005 at 06:56

Interesting.

I didn’t know that GarageGames gave DevMaster space.

Although it seems like GarageGames might be *interested* in having a place for people to start developing their games on: as it might end up with GarageGames publishing them. The details could be worked out (who gets to start a project? Anyone? People of a certain rank? Etc?) later, as long as GG was interested.

A decent thought, but there’s sites like www.berlios.de, www.tigris.org, and www.sourceforge.net, if you’re truly doing an open project. And if not, subversion can be installed on any old machine, and with dyndns.org, your team can collab easy.

It’s how I do it, anyhow. :)

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ProgramWizard 101 Dec 31, 2005 at 14:17

How, precisely, did you get garagegames to give you space for a whole site? :huh:
You guys really should put up a “history of” page.
Anyway, if you want to make money, put up a space for donations, and open a shop at cafepress :yes:

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dk 158 Jan 01, 2006 at 01:23

GarageGames are one of our main sponsors, and they are providing the hosting services for DevMaster.net (on a private server). This does not put us in limitation however.

I knew it. Devmaster has so much limitation compared to gamedev.net that has a game showcase and other big stuff.

You shouldn’t be making assumptions without basis. The game showcase idea was turned down not because of limitations, but because of the lack of certainty for success.

While the suggestions are good (game showcase, project hosting, etc.), they are not something unique and don’t have that much demand considering the resources available elsewhere (SF.net for example). The best type of suggestions that can really set devmaster apart are unique and new suggestions. For example, the 3D Engines Database was a suggestion made by someone a while ago, which (at that time) was something lacking for game and graphics developers. With DevMaster implementing the 3D database, it gave it a unique edge and an exclusive resource. These types of suggestions are what will make DevMaster better.

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ProgramWizard 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 03:48

Yes, I see what you mean. But maybe you should focus on getting what your competitors have first; stuff that some people might expect; to reel browsers in, and then hook them with features that are interesting and unique, like a 3D Engines database :yes:

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SpreeTree 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 10:07

@ProgramWizard

But maybe you should focus on getting what your competitors have first; stuff that some people might expect

Why would DevMaster want what others have. If others have them, then go there for that service, and come here for the services DevMaster offers. If you have been banned from using other sites services, then thats not DevMasters fault. If DevMaster sticks with copying other sites ideas, their user base will not increase, as people will stay where they are.

From what I have seen, any decent, new and individual idea’s have been taken up by DevMaster (engines database, game wiki - granted there are others), while generic (or copied) ideas have been discussed bu ultimatly put down.

SourceForge and Berlios are professional and constantly maintained web sites - dedicated to the hosting of projects. I can only imagine what goes into running those sites. If you have an issue with CVS, then either go with the suggestions made, or deal with it - it is not that bad.

Anyway, thats my take on the subject - and on the ‘expansion’ of DevMaster. Think of something new and original that would make people want to visit both here and their usual board, and I am sure the staff will consider it.

Happy new year
Spree

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eddie 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 17:25

I agree completely SpreeTree.

Also, what’s with the sudden impetus to make DevMaster compete with other websites?

I think DevMaster’s got a great community, and it’s helped me in most of the ways I need. I’m all for constantly striving to improve themselves, but I get this feeling from some posters that it’s more about “crushing the competition” then it is to keep the spirit of game development alive. Let other sites have their niche, and let DevMaster coexist.

It’s not all or nothing.

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Onikhaosifix 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 17:29

@SpreeTree

Why would DevMaster want what others have. If others have them, then go there for that service, and come here for the services

Nothing wrong with being unique. But there’s nothing wrong with borrowing elements from other websites either. If the staff of Devmaster.net followed your philosophy 100% then they would get rid of this message board right now.

I know alot of people who visit this site daily who don’t really use the 3D Engine Database nor do they care about it. Also, if they wanted a wiki on game development they would go to gpwiki.org.

Coming up with completely new and unique editions for this site is very difficult. Until someone can come up with something whynot, for the time being, implement services found in other sites but better?

We’re all concerned with improving this site to becoming the best on the web, or one of the best. Don’t you think making Devmaster a complete site–one with features borrowed from others but implemented better, and with new and unique features not seen before–is one big step to the idealized site we all hope for?

Some other elements this site borrowed from others:

Wiki(very slowly growing; gpwiki.org has more content)
IRC Chat(dead; #gamedev is more active)
Message Board(growing; gamedev.net is much more active with some bad apples in the community)

What’s wrong with borrowing a few more elements? Alright forget about competiting. Some of us just want Devmaster to be an idealized complete site.

Some of us are extravagant and wouldn’t mind pumping the “spirit” of game programming up in steroids.

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monjardin 102 Jan 01, 2006 at 17:39

I think the impetus should be from the “suggesters” to show that demand for a feature exists at DevMaster.net. Right now the implementers are defending why they shouldn’t spend their personal time creating something that is available elsewhere.
What is the benefit of the features you suggest and why should they be duplicated here?
Maintaining a grudge against GameDev.net is simply not a good answer…

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Onikhaosifix 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 17:54

I’m making these suggestions in hopes to improve this website to take several steps towards the idealized complete website myself, and many others, would hope for.

My grudge against gamedev.net has no influence on my decisions. I mentioned that site because it’s the premiere game development website right now. Why not take examples from the best?

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ProgramWizard 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 18:31

I don’t have a grudge against gamedev.net. I suggested this feature because it is unique. It fits the “we want unique features” philosiphy. Other sites may have it, but no other game programming sites have it, and those are the main competitors of devmaster.

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Onikhaosifix 101 Jan 01, 2006 at 20:38

@ProgramWizard

I don’t have a grudge against gamedev.net. I suggested this feature because it is unique. It fits the “we want unique features” philosiphy. Other sites may have it, but no other game programming sites have it, and those are the main competitors of devmaster.

I’m trying to defend your idea but you keep bringing up “competition”. No one is in competition here so remove that idea out of your head.

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baldurk 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 13:54

The difference I see between IRC chat or a message board or whatever, and project hosting is that the former is different between here and gamedev for example, but that the latter doesn’t matter where it is. The point being that we have a message board here and people would want to come because we have something unique to offer - our community. However if we set up project hosting, why should anyone choose ours over anyone elses? we’re not filling a gap in the market or offering anything someone can’t get anywhere else.

Personally as far as project hosting is concerned I think that there should be some way to provide a distribution package with the daily image. That produces a nice balance between adding new features and linking it with the features we already have.

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Jynks 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 15:02

Project hosting seams like a waste to me. I mean if you can not organise yourself and your group a webpage then your a joke anyway. Webspace is cheep, you can set your own forum, blogs, image gallery etc etc all with free php software. You have a number of file sharing apps if you need to host large files, but lets face it most of the home made games I have seen around the place are not that big. Even if you do not go with filesharing apps then there are a few file hosting servers. Still a 5 sec google search can find cheep webspace with 200+ meg easy…

Maybe Devmaster can host completed games only? So if you complete a game you get a page in a downloads section or somtihng… …

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ProgramWizard 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 18:24

That’s been suggested already, and turned down.

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Onikhaosifix 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 18:41

I think a game showcase–where completed projects are shown and available for download–is much better than project hosting.

The main thing that bothers me is that it appears as if you guys aren’t opened to ideas suggested by the members. I’m still shocked that my game showcase idea was shut down. If you guys are worried about space and money then force submitters to pay.

One of the staff members who posted here said that “our community” is the unique thing that Devmaster.net offers. If that’s truly the case then a game showcase where members of this community showcase their projects is just as unique because the games will be done by members of this community, not members of some other site.

I believe this is a valid point considering that you still believe “our community” is a unique thing offered by devmaster.net.

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bladder 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 21:46

The main thing that bothers me is that it appears as if you guys aren’t opened to ideas suggested by the members.

ideA. Not ideaS. Keep that in mind. Check the other threads in this Suggestions forum and then say we’re not open to suggestions from members.

This whole deal with project hosting just doesn’t seem necessary. First of all, running and maintaining a developer collaboration website is a pain, and would be very expensive. Either we’d have to buy collaboration software (ion-forge, sourceforge - sound familiar?, whatever), or implement it ourselves, which is not an easy task. SOurceforge.net has spent years perfecting their methods, what’s wrong with just using them? The daily image presents a perfect outlet for your project at sourceforge. Using a site like sf.net will be way more productive then a half assed implementation attempt of the same thing. And then just post a picture of your project here at dmn with a link to your sf page if necessary. You’re making an issue out of non-issue.

What I see as a possible addition is a “project of the day” type of thing, where we highlight game development projects that are being worked on on places like berlios, sorceforge.net and any personal home page projects. Though it may be too similar to the daily image concept. Maybe we can refine that idea instead…

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anubis 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 23:18

The main thing that bothers me is that it appears as if you guys aren’t opened to ideas suggested by the members. I’m still shocked that my game showcase idea was shut down. If you guys are worried about space and money then force submitters to pay.

Just because people are questioning ideas doesn’t mean that they are turned down per se. Cost and usefulness are just things you have to consider. Btw, the idea has been kicked around before and hasn’t been implemented so far. So you are not even the first one to come up with it. Anyway, before you say such stupid things you should really give it a second thought. Like bladder said… take a look at the suggestions forum.

I think a game showcase–where completed projects are shown and available for download–is much better than project hosting.

You may notice that that is exactly what each of the moderators suggested as an alternative to the full project hosting.

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Onikhaosifix 101 Jan 02, 2006 at 23:24

@anubis

You may notice that that is exactly what each of the moderators suggested as an alternative to the full project hosting.

Right but I made a whole topic about that idea which got turned down. The facts that the moderators are suggesting it now makes you wonder.

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ProgramWizard 101 Jan 03, 2006 at 12:42

@Onikhaosifix

Right but I made a whole topic about that idea which got turned down. The facts that the moderators are suggesting it now makes you wonder.

Not really. The game showcase thread sort of went off on a tangent about how gamedev.net sucks, and this thread raised some interesting points.

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Onikhaosifix 101 Jan 06, 2006 at 05:06

@ProgramWizard

Not really. The game showcase thread sort of went off on a tangent about how gamedev.net sucks, and this thread raised some interesting points.

If I were to respond to this comment contradicting you we’d look like two kids arguing back and forth. And therefore our ideas wouldn’t be taken seriously.

As I recall, you’re the one who brought up getting a ban from gamedev.net in my topic.

In this very topic some of the ideas being suggested are simply echoes of what I initially suggested in the other topic.

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monjardin 102 Jan 06, 2006 at 13:56

For the love of God, let it die! :p

Since you two do seem so intent on this, maybe you would have better luck if you prototyped a desirable system and presented it.

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ProgramWizard 101 Jan 06, 2006 at 14:34

I’m not intent on it, because if devmaster had project hosting or something similar I wouldn’t even use it :)
I suggested this because I thought there would be other people who would find a service like this useful. I guess I was wrong.

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eddie 101 Jan 06, 2006 at 19:44

Best way to find out would be a poll, I guess.

I personally wouldn’t use it, however.

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monjardin 102 Jan 16, 2006 at 20:18

Sorry to kick a dead horse, but I ran across thistoday. OpenSVN, is run by a couple students at the Department of Computer Science and Information Engineering, National Taiwan University. You’ve got free hosting with trac and subversion.
I would make regular backups if you plan on using it since I’m not entirely convinced of its longevity. Has anyone here used it?

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eddie 101 Jan 16, 2006 at 20:34

Hrmm, haven’t used that myself.

But I do love trac and subversion.. They go together very well.

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Josh1billion 101 Apr 18, 2006 at 03:38

This is a pretty good idea. For the disk space & bandwidth issue, you could have just the pages and images hosted and have the downloads themselves hosted elsewhere. In other words, DevMaster.net would host your whole project’s mini-site (like SourceForge does), but your Downloads page would have to link to remotely-hosted files (you can just host those files on RapidShare or something else).

(Sorry if someone mentioned that idea– I don’t think anyone did, but I did skip a lot of replies)