C++, C#, Cobol, Fortran, Pascal.......

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hehehahahoho 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 11:58

C++, C#, COBOL, PASCAL, JAVA, etc……which is the most powerful?

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Mihail121 102 Aug 17, 2005 at 12:05

C, Java, Pascal but of course they are no match for BRAINFUCK

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hehehahahoho 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 12:06

@Mihail121

C, Java, Pascal but of course they are no match for BRAINFUCK [snapback]19999[/snapback]

heher…

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Ed_Mack 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 13:04

Each language is best suited to a different set of tasks, ideally a programmer would be familiar with a wide range.

C/C++ is great for library and app developement, and generally anything (especially low-level stuff).
C# is good for quickly writing desktop apps
Java is great for enterprise applications
Pascal is good for teaching students
Cobol is… ?

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bramz 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 15:17

Pascal??? why bother teaching them a dead language? I hated it! =)

Cobol is good for administration software … well … “good” as in “still being used”.

Bramz

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Tufty 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 15:42

@bramz

Pascal??? why bother teaching them a dead language? I hated it! =)

Cobol is good for administration software … well … “good” as in “still being used”.

Bramz

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Pascal’s not dead, quite a few people still use Delphi don’t they, which is still Borland Pascal at the core. Hell I even learned it myself, and it taught me some useful stuff.

Cobol is only around still because of the big companies (banks and such) that still have software developed in it. They’ve invested too much time and effort to just change away from it, but I’m sure they will eventually!

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bramz 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 19:17

Ah yeah of course … If you count Delphi as Pascal, then it’s not dead yet :) But I’m still horrified by the thought … I’m one of those you know … We actually had to learn (turbo) Pascal in the first year at university … In the second year, we even had to do graphics programming in it! Well … I can tell you: I’m glad I left it all behind :)

You’re exactly right about COBOL … At the time of the millenium bug, they had to teach hunders of programmers COBOL … exactly because of that :)

Bramz

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Einheri 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 21:21

Machine code is the most powerful! Not only that, but it’s easy; you only need two of the keys on your keyboard! It’s fast, it’s compact, and you can do anything in it!

Damnit, now I’m back to sounding like a C++ programmer. :tongue:

But seriously; each of those languages is Turing complete and, therefore, as powerful as anything else out there. You just have to weigh up which one’s going to make your life easier.

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Polar_Sleuth 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 23:12

@bramz

Ah yeah of course … If you count Delphi as Pascal, then it’s not dead yet :) But I’m still horrified by the thought … I’m one of those you know … We actually had to learn (turbo) Pascal in the first year at university … In the second year, we even had to do graphics programming in it! Well … I can tell you: I’m glad I left it all behind :)

The one language I’m most glad of leaving behind is Modula-2. For those who have never heard of it, be thankful. The creator of Pascal and one of the professors from my college desided to “correct” everything that was “wrong” with Pascal. The compiler was a three-stage compiler before getting into linking and writing the executable. I had the unfortunate timing of taking the “introductory course” while they were still writing the text book and the compiler wasn’t quite in beta. Average compile times staggered into the hours with plenty of disk swaps. Yuck.

Then again, each member of the tenured staff had a language he created and crafted a course around. A four-year long nightmare of bad langguages…

Thanks for reminding me….
Lew

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Tufty 101 Aug 17, 2005 at 23:28

@Polar Sleuth

@bramz

Ah yeah of course … If you count Delphi as Pascal, then it’s not dead yet :) But I’m still horrified by the thought … I’m one of those you know … We actually had to learn (turbo) Pascal in the first year at university … In the second year, we even had to do graphics programming in it! Well … I can tell you: I’m glad I left it all behind :)

The one language I’m most glad of leaving behind is Modula-2. For those who have never heard of it, be thankful. The creator of Pascal and one of the professors from my college desided to “correct” everything that was “wrong” with Pascal. The compiler was a three-stage compiler before getting into linking and writing the executable. I had the unfortunate timing of taking the “introductory course” while they were still writing the text book and the compiler wasn’t quite in beta. Average compile times staggered into the hours with plenty of disk swaps. Yuck.

Then again, each member of the tenured staff had a language he created and crafted a course around. A four-year long nightmare of bad langguages…

Thanks for reminding me….
Lew

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I’ve heard of Modula-2 but never had any experience in it. I think I’m happy not to have! I didn’t have to go as far as graphical stuff in Turbo Pascal either, my college hadn’t installed those libraries so as much as we got was text-based.

I have used something like 15-17 different programming languages now. My favourite so far is definitely C++ though :)

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hehehahahoho 101 Aug 18, 2005 at 03:34

“I have used something like 15-17 different programming languages now”?

wow!

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Tufty 101 Aug 18, 2005 at 08:00

@hehehahahoho

“I have used something like 15-17 different programming languages now”?

wow!

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Yup. I didn’t say I was particularly far along with most of them, but I’ve been programming for nearly 18 years across various systems, and I’ve had the opportunity to pick up a new language or 2 virtually every time. Started on the Spectrum, C64, Amiga, BBC Micro…. and then eventually onto the PC where I’ve played with everything from Pascal to Java to C#, as well as languages like Blitz3D and DarkBasic.

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anubis 101 Aug 18, 2005 at 16:16

Machine code is the most powerful! Not only that, but it’s easy; you only need two of the keys on your keyboard! It’s fast, it’s compact, and you can do anything in it!

Damnit, now I’m back to sounding like a C++ programmer.

But seriously; each of those languages is Turing complete and, therefore, as powerful as anything else out there.

Einheri : In one of my brighter moments (in the bathroom) i took a roll of toilet paper and the black and white checker tokens i have and build myself a turing machine. I guess the point is… who needs computers and machine code ? ;)

But seriously… isn’t computer science the art of abstraction ?

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Mihail121 102 Aug 18, 2005 at 16:29

Boah… i’m kinda getting mentally blind cause i don’t see any sence at all in this discussion!!! Turing complete or not Turing complete, C++ or machine code: every language is useful for solving a problem or a set of problems and therefore every language is good!

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Einheri 101 Aug 18, 2005 at 18:02

@anubis

Machine code is the most powerful! Not only that, but it’s easy; you only need two of the keys on your keyboard! It’s fast, it’s compact, and you can do anything in it!

Damnit, now I’m back to sounding like a C++ programmer.

But seriously; each of those languages is Turing complete and, therefore, as powerful as anything else out there.

Einheri : In one of my brighter moments (in the bathroom) i took a roll of toilet paper and the black and white checker tokens i have and build myself a turing machine. I guess the point is… who needs computers and machine code ? ;)

But seriously… isn’t computer science the art of abstraction ?

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And your hobo-computer would be able to perform any operation that C++, FORTRAN, or hatever could perform. Therefore it is just as powerful. The key point of my post was the part about choosing which makes your life easier; For exaple, you probably could write quake 4 using some tissue and a bunch of checker tokens, but it wouldn’t be making your life any easier. Similarly, but to much less of an extreme, you could write a MMORPG back-end in C, but something like Java might make things an awful lot nicer for you.

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Mihail121 102 Aug 18, 2005 at 19:15

Einheri look, it is not only the structure, the essence of a given language that one should take into account when doing such a comparison between them. There are a great number of other details and factors that one should also concern to meet the ultimately correct decision. One needs for example a given problem to base the comparison onto, because we shoudn’t compare the language by personal preferance only, but we should examine how effectively they solve the problem. And only then one could state: this language is better than that one for solving the current problem!

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Einheri 101 Aug 18, 2005 at 19:50

But the question asked was not actually “which language is better than that one for solving the current problem?” was it? It was “Which is more powerful”. My comment about them all being Turing complete was to say that they are all equally powerful; that they can all accomplish the same things. But what I did not say, and what it seems that, for whatever reason, you seem to think I did, is that this makes them all an equally wise choice for any given problem; in fact I qualified my original statement with the implication of that very thing. It really seems that you are unrealisingly arguing the exact same point as I am; why else would you use a statement such as “we shoudn’t compare the language by personal preferance only, but we should examine how effectively they solve the problem.” as an answer to a post that supported examples such as “you could write a MMORPG back-end in C, but something like Java might make things an awful lot nicer for you”? Aren’t those two quotes basically saying the same thing?

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Mihail121 102 Aug 18, 2005 at 20:17

Yes they are, but i think i’ve answered your question, which indeed was “Which is more powerful”. We CANNOT say, which language is more powerful without having a stable platform to base the comparison onto :)

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anubis 101 Aug 19, 2005 at 05:01

Einheri : Hey, I was just kidding… I thought i’d just jump in on your joke. No offence intended.

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Einheri 101 Aug 19, 2005 at 08:58

@Mihail121

Yes they are, but i think i’ve answered your question, which indeed was “Which is more powerful”. We CANNOT say, which language is more powerful without having a stable platform to base the comparison onto :) [snapback]20059[/snapback]

I… didn’t ask that question? I’m really, really, confused, now.
@anubis

Einheri : Hey, I was just kidding… I thought i’d just jump in on your joke. No offence intended. [snapback]20062[/snapback]

No offence was taken at all; the post was a good one. I just thought that perhaps my point needed a little clarifying.

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Ed_Mack 101 Aug 19, 2005 at 12:56

@Einheri

I… didn’t ask that question? I’m really, really, confused, now. [snapback]20064[/snapback]

It was the original question :)

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Einheri 101 Aug 19, 2005 at 13:04

Yes, but Mihail seems to think that I asked it:

“i’ve answered your question”

Ah well, don’t suppose it matters, really.

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_FluffysWhole_ 101 Aug 23, 2005 at 13:44

The definition of “computer” or “programming language” can be abstracted to mean “form of communication between human and machine to describe a task to perform”. In which case I would say the button is the most prevaliant, prefered and powerful form of programming language :)

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DownloaderKL 101 Sep 04, 2005 at 21:55

I can only say that I like C++ so far because it’s all I’ve used (Unless you count Visual Basic 6 which was installed on my school computers. I swear the tech guy can’t do anything except login as an admin and install software. He installed so much “protection” that it took him like a month to figure out how to give us permission to use Visual Basic. Then once that got working we couldn’t save to a network data because yet again he installed software that he didn’t know what it did so we waited another week before actually doing projects. I hated him. All teachers I’ve met can only use the computers to login and check email. There’s not really a way to describe the way a person who can barely use a computer looks like except funny. And they say big words like “format” and “desktop icons” for no apparent reason except to sound like computer geniuses. )

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kamui4u 101 Sep 07, 2005 at 16:58

I really enjoy C. it gives me a bit more control. althou im starting to use C++ again for my little project im working on. gotta relearn all that object oriented programming stuff again XD. i still prefer printf over cout…

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Kippesoep 101 Sep 07, 2005 at 18:15

I primarily use C++, Pascal (Delphi), Java and PHP. Pascal is my favourite language, because memory management is a lot easier to get right than C++ and the VCL is a very capable system (although it has some limitations that take some serious dirty work if you need to get around them). I really hate Java, mostly due to negative experiences with the horrible Netbeans IDE which managed to crash upon simply typing /* to open a comment and made by 2.8GHz P4 remind me of my old 286. Also not too fond of Python. The language itself is nice, but I currently have to maintain a system that was built in it by a programmer who was, shall we say, less than competent? Stuff like that really makes you dislike the language almost as much as that programmer.

Oh, and several of my pet projects are actually written in a large amount of JavaScript (that’s not as bad as it sounds – it’s used as a scripting language for my game engine, which is written in C++). Works quite nicely.

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stWasm 101 Sep 13, 2005 at 07:21

@hehehahahoho

C++, C#, COBOL, PASCAL, JAVA, and anything…..who most powerfull?!!!!!!!! :dry:

Assembly is most powerfull.

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SamuraiCrow 101 Oct 15, 2005 at 03:03

@stWasm

Assembly is most powerfull.

Actually VHDL and PROLOG can beat assembly… IF you have access to a factory that creates custom microchips from gate layout. :whistle:

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jff_f 101 Oct 15, 2005 at 04:35

It depends on how you define powerful… for me c++ is the most powerful since… even if I can do things with less work in other languages I’m more efficient in c++ and I know a lot of c++ and how to optimize.

I don’t think that there are ONE more powerful language cause it depends mostly on the project you’re working on, the platform and many other things. I think there is a COBOL .Net so this means that you can access all the functions in the .Net Framework which also means that you can write a 3d game using Managed DirectX or any other OpenGL .Net wrapper. But is working on a game project in COBOL .Net really worth it ? But porting old COBOL application you can find in some banks, COBOL .NET might be the best since the code shouldn’t change that much.

The best language is the one that you’ll write what you need (performance might be an issue too) faster and won’t be a pain to maintain.

If you really meant performance… getting closer to the machine code is your answer. So C or C++ (since their is not much of a difference now), maybe ASM if you want to get even closer you still can write everything in machine code using a hex editor.

A guy from EA said, in a conference at my school told us to use what will allow you to achieve our goal quickly. He was talking about using free game engines to make a demo to get a job but this thing can be applied to many things. Define your goal and learn what you need for the project. If you wanna write games you can use most languages, but if you need more frames c++ might be more suitable… but c#, java, delphi, might be a bit below but not by much (since the libraries you’ll use are mostly native c/c++ you might need a wrapper). Delphi might have no loss of performance if the compiler can optimize as much as c/c++ compilers do but I can’t really say since I don’t program in delphi/pascal.

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Vexorian 101 Oct 21, 2005 at 20:35

The most powerful ASSEMBLER.

The best is c++.

The most practical is C#

JAVA has a lot of merits too.

And the best for a start language is delphi which is just pascal with some features

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Polar_Sleuth 101 Oct 21, 2005 at 21:07

Why is it always assumed that Pascal is easier to learn than other languages?

Is it because it uses more words than C/C++? If you really want a language that has a minimum amount of symbols and relies heavily on words try Dylan (http://www.functionalobjects.com/). It is a fully object-oriented language that has lots of features academics love that you cannot find in C/C++, Pascal, Java, Fortran, or COBOL. If nothing else it is the most verbose language I have ever come across. Besides the compiler generates fast code that compares favorably to C and beats C++ in most cases. Of course executable size is a completely different story.

COBOL must be a near second place on the verbose scale. I haven’t tried it on the new Visual Studio, so I have no idea how well it compiles … does it compile? When I first dealt with COBOL, it was a few decades ago - so I don’t remember the details of its operation.

You can go with BASIC - that is what it was designed for, after all. Part of the Pascal craze was started because it compiled when BASIC didn’t. The modern version is VisualBasic on PC and … RealBasic on the Mac.

If, however, you want to avoid anything resembling words in your computer language, there are a few of those too.

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bignobody 101 Oct 21, 2005 at 21:26

@anubis

In one of my brighter moments (in the bathroom) i took a roll of toilet paper and the black and white checker tokens i have and build myself a turing machine.

Sounds like someone was in need of a laxative :lol: