triplebuffer

F7a4a748ecf664f189bb704a660b3573
0
anubis 101 Jan 25, 2005 at 10:47

is there a reason why devmaster does not index the triplebuffer directx tutorials ? also there is no directx section in the articles/tutorials index… this would probably be a good time to add one :)

22 Replies

Please log in or register to post a reply.

D07934a90668e88866d5ac8b3529f686
0
Luminion 101 Jul 26, 2005 at 13:58

I believe if we concatonate triple buffer’s site along with devmaster.net’s main site then it would be a beautiful combination. And will serve as an excellent alternative to gamedev.net :)

22b3033832c5c699c856814b0cf80cb1
0
bladder 101 Jul 26, 2005 at 16:43

What do you mean by concatenate? Like, how?

D07934a90668e88866d5ac8b3529f686
0
Luminion 101 Jul 27, 2005 at 11:34

Triple Buffer hasn’t been update in a year. I say we take most of the crucial content and add it to this site. But of course some changes need to be made(spell checking, modify the html code to fit the design of this site, etc.)

People are afraid to submit DirectX tutorials to this site because it might get rejected because triple buffer exist. But as I stated before Triple Buffer hasn’t been update in a year and I don’t really find their tutorials helpful. The first few tutorials for instance is bloated as hell. The guy writes more than enough code to create a window and render a triangle.

I don’t know. It’s more than like that no one will consider my idea because it would require too much time and effort. But if this site is serious about competing with gamedev.net then more content needs to be added, more members need to make the community active like a volcano.

You guys are probably not “competing” with gamedev.net but it would be a fun thing to do. The….well nevermind. I’m just going on and on with ideas. I should just shut up, it’s no use.

22b3033832c5c699c856814b0cf80cb1
0
bladder 101 Jul 27, 2005 at 14:35

Wow, it really has been a year since I’ve added anything… I don’t see why people would think that their dx stuff would get rejected just because of triplebuffer though. TB is just, well, was just a side project and it went pretty far I think, not as far as it could’ve gone but it went on for a while. I don’t think there’d be a big difference between copying TB into DM, or just indexing the stuff that TB has (that DM feels is worth indexing). There is stuff other then dx tutorials on there that people do actually use.

Furthermore, I don’t see how concatenating TB with DM will up the traffic, it’s not like DM will be getting anything new, it’s all old stuff that people have most probably seen and downloaded by now…

75c2c31bcca10ef21a86d5f5f49279d2
0
Tufty 101 Jul 27, 2005 at 17:04

That’s true. I’ve made use of it several times, always hoping that there would be new stuff to see, but always being disappointed. Although the tutorials are of pretty good quality. What happened with the DXW?

I’d like to see some more basic tutorials either here or on Triple Buffer, taking people through the steps of writing a game. Going through all the steps necessary, not just the coding - showing why design documents etc are important, and testing procedures. Also, most DX tutorials I’ve seen skip fairly important steps like enumerating graphics cards and selecting the best mode for your game, not to mention handling lost devices, so I’d like any coverage to include stuff like that.

It could be done as a series of articles that interconnect - you’d have the basic stuff generic to all games, and perhaps a couple of different branches to follow depending on the sort of game you want to make - I’m more into the 2D side, so I’d naturally be more inclined to follow that route, while others might want to make an FPS…. or an MMORPG, but let’s not talk about that :P

If there’s enough interest in this sort of thing I wouldn’t mind contributing, although my writing skills aren’t great. Combine enough different writers and articles though and it may even be worthy of compiling into a book of some description, assuming it would be of any interest to a publisher.

Anyone got any feedback, or am I blue-skying too much here?

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Jul 27, 2005 at 20:09

I would contribute to any deisgn things anwell and low-mid polygon modelling using 3D Studio MAX.

By the way: I found the triplebuffer very usefull and that is where I learnt the basics of DirectX. Must say that I didn’t get much further, but hey :D.

75c2c31bcca10ef21a86d5f5f49279d2
0
Tufty 101 Jul 27, 2005 at 21:14

Ok, does anyone have any ideas for potential articles that we could work on? Maybe we should stick any plans in the Wiki for now….

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 02:54

righto, I’ll whip up some articles of design, post them on the wiki and maybe submit them to the administrators.

B23fde3625b5611b7f6b4df8a6bf87ec
0
Onikhaosifix 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 09:24

Tufty, they all sound like great ideas.

75c2c31bcca10ef21a86d5f5f49279d2
0
Tufty 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 11:23

Let’s hope we can get enough articles together to make this mini-project worthwhile then :) I can’t promise to produce much at the moment, but I’ll do what I can.

Thinking of tackling absolute basic game code first. Should probably start with a basic framework window in much the same way that Triple Buffer does already, but I don’t see this as a duplication of effort because TB doesn’t currently explain the code, except as comments within the file.

Something that does interest me but that I have no experience in is how to make code cross-platform (without using SDL or any other library - I want to be able to see how it all works). Anyone want to tackle that? :)

22b3033832c5c699c856814b0cf80cb1
0
bladder 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 13:57

Nice to see some enthusasm…

How to make code cross platform would be a nice topic to tackle, though you maight want to really make it a little bit more specific. Like How to make a cross platform renderer, or a cross platform window system - something like that.

That’s true. I’ve made use of it several times, always hoping that there would be new stuff to see, but always being disappointed. Although the tutorials are of pretty good quality. What happened with the DXW?

It all boils down to time. I just can’t find any time to go way out of my way like I used to have. Answering questions in a forum is one thing, writing up entire tutorials is a whole different thing, it just takes more time then I currently have to spare…

75c2c31bcca10ef21a86d5f5f49279d2
0
Tufty 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 15:11

The reason I want to tackle cross-platform at a very basic level is because of the whole int main() / int WINAPI WinMain() side of things, how to develop so that you can use int main() throughout but still be able to create a Windows application. I’ve seen it done, but it’s always abstracted away so that I can’t understand how it works.

I can definitely see the advantage of looking at cross-platform renderers and window systems though, it would be an interesting topic - one I know nothing about though! I haven’t even gotten to the point of being able to choose between OpenGL and DirectX under Windows, let alone throwing in the cross-platform side.

Other possibilities to look at (as I see them):

* AI - how to develop AI for your game including (but not limited to) path-finding, FSMs, fuzzy logic and sensory awareness. This will probably turn into quite a large topic, and I think it would make sense to avoid lumping it all into one piece of code, purely because it’d get overcomplicated.

* GUI code - making an interface for your game: buttons, windows, screen managers - however you choose to do it. I’m aware that there’s a number of possibilities of how to do it and that not everybody will agree - but I personally would like to see this made as independent of the graphics side as possible (obviously apart from such things as mouse handling and drawing the controls).

* Networking - coding client/server and peer-to-peer routines for your game, possibly including the use of external libraries - I’ve previously used RakNet, which I thought was pretty damn cool, but I’d again like to learn what’s going on behind the scenes. Might also be worth covering how to prevent hacking and cheats in online games.

* Audio - how to play sound files and music files and the like. Again, we could choose to show the use of external libraries (we’ll probably have to, given the depth of the topic), but I’d like to keep it cross-platform or at least provide alternative options (rather than just using DirectSound etc).

* Media - this is partly connected to audio and graphics, the ability to play movie files from within the game - for intro animations or any purpose really.

* Graphics - well, it’s a big deal. Focus mainly on hardware-accelerated stuff - DirectX, OpenGL, perhaps with some software rendering articles. Showing how to tie the graphics code into the rest of the application, and again attempting to provide a cross-platform solution. Although many people will want to see 3D, 2D shouldn’t be neglected, whether it’s single-screen, scrolling (parallax or basic), isometric (could argue that this can fit into 3D, but how about showing both alternatives?). 3D will be an absolutely huge topic, covering all sorts of rendering questions - using shaders, vertex and index buffers, how to make cameras that do what you want them to…. as I say, a huge topic. I’d also like to see stuff on terrain (did anyone actually see my 2D terrain generation code? :P) and particle effects.

* Resources - I’d like to show how to load files from common resource file formats (such as ZIP and MD2) as well as the technology necessary to create your own, and to load from standard files like JPEGs and PNGs. Loading 3D model formats should be covered, and possibly how to write exporters for common 3D modelling packages, although this might be better under the next category.

* Tools - how to develop a toolset to make creating your game simpler. Map Editors, Resource File Creators, everything like that which would be useful that you don’t necessarily want to ship with your game.

* Scripting - it’s so commonly used these days it’d be a crime to leave it out. Maybe covering how to write your own scripting language, but also how to integrate existing languages into your code - Lua, Python etc.

* Structure - how to develop your game in a way that makes sense. Properly structuring all your files so as to encourage object-oriented development, without being a total fanatic on the subject. Separation between components is definitely a good thing no matter which way you look at it.

* Scenegraphs - and world models. Showing how best to represent your world. Again I know there are a number of different approaches to doing this, I prefer a parent-child hierarchy sorted by links between objects, but I know there are other solutions that make more sense in certain situations.

* Physics - how to at least simulate rigid-body physics in your game, if not soft-body. Collisions of course should be a big part of this, which may or may not include bounding boxes and spheres to reduce the number of calculations that need to be made.

* Testing/Debugging - how to test your game in a sensible way and how to deal with any bugs you may find.

* Installations - how to write install programs to deploy your game, using many of the popular methods (MSI, NSIS, maybe InstallShield). Also how to deploy patches after installation.

* Game Design - design documents, proof of concept, prototyping - advice on all that and more, preferably with sample documents that people can look at and hopefully gain a better understanding.

* Publishing/Selling your Game - could cover anything from approaching publishers, copyright issues, making use of the Internet, freeware/shareware/open source, releasing demo versions and basically anything else that makes sense.

If anyone has anything else to add, I’m sure I’ve missed plenty despite the size of this list. I’d mostly like to see C++ code here, with a healthy dollop of pseudocode to highlight important points, but that’s mostly because that is my chosen development language at the minute. If anyone wants to show C#, or Visual Basic, or even Blitz Basic or Dark Basic (or hell, anything else for that matter) feel free, most of the concepts should apply equally across each language.

Bladder, I totally understand your lack of time to spare to produce more tutorials. If you feel like contributing at all to this little project feel free though, and that goes for anyone else as well. With work on this mainly happening in the Wiki it should be possible for anyone to suggest changes and point out inaccuracies in each others code, or alternative ways of approaching problems. With so many topics to cover, no one person could know it all, but we seem to have a pretty knowledgeable community here so I’m sure if we put our heads together we can come up with something reasonable. Hell, it may even be detailed enough to beat the pants off GameDev.net ;)

I’ll be working on some very basic articles over the next week or so that I’ll put on the Wiki as time allows - I haven’t decided what part to tackle first yet (there’s so much to choose from :D) but I will produce something soon.

If anyone wants to cover mobile games (*cough* Mihail) then that can definitely go in here too :D

F7a4a748ecf664f189bb704a660b3573
0
anubis 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 16:43

instead of coming up with a lot of articles by single persons i’d suggest we create a wiki project out of this. currently there are no “tutorials” in the wiki so a step by step series of articles could fill that gap. as some might think that they lack writing skills they can still conribute since others can take care of the outer form of the articles.

75c2c31bcca10ef21a86d5f5f49279d2
0
Tufty 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 17:56

I can definitely go for that idea. I don’t know anything about adding to wiki’s, does the one here have any special requirements before I can post to it?

B23fde3625b5611b7f6b4df8a6bf87ec
0
Onikhaosifix 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 18:38

I’m currently working on a multi-part series of SDL tutorials. All I’m going to do is write up the tutorials and submit them. I don’t know squat about this wiki project thingy. Maybe you guys could use my tutorials. I’m almost done with lesson one.

I love the enthusiasm here but I’d rather see action. If this site were constantly updated with new material I guarantee that the forums will see an increase in traffic. This site has a great deal of potential and I’m not giving up on it.

This is Luminion by the way. Lost my password and my e-mail account was destroyed by a hacker(possibily my cousin who figured out my password).

75c2c31bcca10ef21a86d5f5f49279d2
0
Tufty 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 19:16

I know what you mean - and you will be seeing action soon, don’t worry about that. My first tutorial should be ready within a week or so, I’m planning on covering basic Windows initialisation code to start with, including the best message loops for games.

One thing I’ve noticed - the Wiki doesn’t seem to have support for automatic syntax-highlighting like we do here. Is there any way to get that on, or have I just missed something?

065f0635a4c94d685583c20132a4559d
0
Ed_Mack 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 19:26

There’s bound to be an extension for it.

Ea1e202bbd97524308adb219c6c33a73
0
Methulah 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 20:16

I’m sure I saw a mediawiki that had it… maybe Purple#?

F7a4a748ecf664f189bb704a660b3573
0
anubis 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 20:20

that was an extension i had asked for a long time ago… maybe Dia forgot about it… Since we run a game development wiki, rest assured that it’s going to be integrated

F7a4a748ecf664f189bb704a660b3573
0
anubis 101 Jul 28, 2005 at 20:23

I can definitely go for that idea. I don’t know anything about adding to wiki’s, does the one here have any special requirements before I can post to it?

Tufty : no… just look at it and feel free to edit anything…

I love the enthusiasm here but I’d rather see action.

as i said… a lot of activity is currently over in the wiki. that is activity by the staff.

I don’t know squat about this wiki project thingy. Maybe you guys could use my tutorials. I’m almost done with lesson one.

if you’d let us use your stuff in the wiki that would be most helpful… maybe you would also like to get into the wiki idea ? ;)

Fdbdc4176840d77fe6a8deca457595ab
0
dk 158 Jul 29, 2005 at 00:14

Sounds like a very good start. As anubis suggested, it would be great if a couple of individuals team up to work on it together. It would be a lot of work for one person to handle. Perhaps, one person can organize it and guide the rest of the team. Each person can work on an area he has most knowledge in. The advantage of a wiki in this case is the the project becomes independent content and structure of the tutorials/articles are determined by the contributors rather than dictated by the staff and site.

This is of course easier said than done. But if there’s dedication and determination, than anything is possible. Of course, we here at devmaster will fully support any initiative, such as this one.

We’ll have syntax coloring supported soon.

065f0635a4c94d685583c20132a4559d
0
Ed_Mack 101 Jul 29, 2005 at 05:05

The Wiki is simple, just look around it, and read the markup page.