Duke Nukem Forever pre-mortem

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Francois_Hamel 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 03:00

Funny thread on another forum I found while googling on DNF:

” copied from a bunch of forums

Really, if you look a time line there is no point at which they could have restarted. Broussard used to say, “we switched engines a few times, started over a few times, we’re late; sue us” or something along those lines. In reality, you can map DNF’s progress onto a time frame fairly easily, and the only point at which they could’ve scrapped the project and started over was after the E3 2001 video. Here is the time line (now with highlighted points for your viewing pleasure):

Janurary 1997: Work on DNF started.*

April 1997: Quake 2 engine purchase announced. (they got it in mid-late 1997 before Quake 2 was released). Scott Miller states that he is confident that DNF will be released by mid 1998 and prey in late 1998 making 1998 a bit year for 3DR. He also mentions that his confidence is not misplaced.

August and September 1997: First screenshots in PC gamer (hummer, farmer i think).

May 1998: First DNF E3 video shown. You can see that a lot of work has been done.

Late 1998: 3DR announces switch to Unreal tech. It is expected to take no longer than 6 weeks and 3DRealms says “DNF is a 1999 game.”

Mid 1999: 3DR admits that the engine switch took a lot more time than originally estimated.

Late 1999: 3DR announces upgrade to UT level tech. It is expected to take two weeks. 3DR releases a Christmas card saying that DNF will be released in 2000.

2000: I don’t think anything happened. They released some sexy screenshots in late 1999/early 2000 (for the time). Broussard begins claiming that DNF development did not start until 1998. Inquiring minds wonder how they got so much done before May (E3) 1998.

May 2001: 3DR comes out of nowhere and puts DNF up at E3. They state that DNF will be released in 2001 and the end of the E3 2001 video says “WID in 2001”. Many part of the video bear a clear resemblence to the 1999 screenshots.

October 2001: Broussard posts “sorry guys, it won’t be a 2001 release” on the VE3D forums. “Don’t worry, the last major hurdle is AI.”

Unknown 2001: Broussard states that DNF will definitely be out before Unreal 2.

January 2002: Voodoo Extreme makes a list of top 10 titles to be released in 2002. #1 on that list is Duke Nukem Forever. Someone posts “when will we see something” in the 3DR forums. Broussard responds with “soon”.

June 2002: The “soon” thread gets locked.

Unknown 2002: Broussard states that DNF will definitely be out before DooM 3.

2003: Broussard states that DNF has been “on track since early 2002” and that they haven’t reached the light at the end of the tunnel, but “they finally found it.” He wisps away the years between January 1997 and January 2002 and wishes people would consider DNF’s development as if it started in 2002 (this is a strong hint that DNF was far from complete). Unreal 2 released.

Broussard adopts the “DooM 3 and HL2 will have been in development for 5 and 6 years when they’re finally released – DNF isn’t taking that much longer” belief (notice: his numbers are very inaccurate).

Late 2003/early 2004: Take 2 complains about DNF development and expects it around “late 2005”. “At this point we’re just hoping the team [in garland] will finish the project.”

2004: Broussard states that DNF development has been on track since “late 2002/early 2003”, bumping up his earlier statement in an attempt to fight back release expectations. It is clear, from this behavior, that DNF will not be released this year or next. DooM 3 is released. Half Life 2’s release is anticipated this year.

So the most reasonable points in which they could’ve completely restarted would’ve been after each of the E3 videos. They could’ve restarted after the E3 1998 video or after the E3 2001 video. Luckily, you can refute both of these possibilities by simply looking at what Broussard was saying back then – the Unreal engine upgrade was certainly not expected to require them redoing much. Things were added and tech was changed, things were adopted. This was all stated in interviews with Broussard himself.

It is more difficult to question whether they’ve restarted at some point after E3 2001. Clearly, in late 2001/early 2002 when Broussard was saying that the last major hurdle was AI and “soon”, he could not have just restarted the project. Furthermore, in 2003 he stated that development had been good since early 2002. If this was the case, then there was no point at which he could’ve restarted (unless you restart while telling fans “the last major hurdle is AI” and “soon”).

* “We’ve actually been working on the game since January.” – Scott Miller, 1997.


Video game systems that have been released in DNF’s development time:

Neo Geo Pocket Color
Wonderswan
Dreamcast
Gameboy Advance
N-Gage
Playstation 2
X-Box
Gamecube


Major releases in prominent game series since first DNF press release on April 25, 1997:

Grand Theft Auto 1, 2, London, III, Vice City, likely San Andreas

Fallout, Fallout 2, All eight (to my knowledge) Infinity Engine games and expansions, and three Baldur’s Gate console spinoffs

Final Fantasies VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2 XI, Tactics, Tactics Advance, Crystal Chronicles, Origins, Anthology, Chronicles and the Ergheiz & two Mysterious Dungeon spinoffs

Legend of Zelda: Four Swords, Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, Majora’s Mask, Link’s Awakening DX, Link to the Past GBA, Legend of Zelda GBA, Oracle of Seasons, Oracle of Ages

Unreal, Return to wherever the **** that was, Unreal Tournament, UT2k3, UT2k4 and at least 4 games off the top of my head that use its engine

Quakes 2 and 3, and God knows how many games used those two engines

Thief 1, 2, 3

The Sims and all seven expansions

Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 1, 2, 2x, 3, 4, Underground

Madden NFL ‘98, FIFA ‘98, NBA ‘98 and NHL ‘98 for the Super Nintendo, and NHL ‘98 for both the SNES and Genesis

Might & Magic VI, VII, VIII and IX

With the exception of Meridian 59, every MMORPG apart from MUDs (I may be off here; at any rate UO was released five months after DNF was announced)

Romance of the Three Kingdoms VI, VII, VIII, IX, Dynasty Warriors 1-4 (and 2 expansions), Samurai Warriors, Kessen 1 & 2, Dynasty Tactics 1 & 2, Mystic Heroes

Every Dance Dance Revolution game

Every single Pokémon game released in the US

Every Deer Hunter game

Chessmaster 5500, 6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 with 10th edition out in two months, just on the PC

Twenty (to my knowledge) Mega Man titles, for GBC, GBA, GC and N64, not including direct ports

Thirty (to my knowledge) Star Wars titles, again not including direct ports
And something new! Working Designs is famous for taking absolutely forever to release a product. Since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever, WD has released Albert Oddesy, Magic Knight Rayearth, Sega Ages (maybe), Raystorm, Elemental Gearbolt, Lunar: Silver Star Story, Sillhouette Mirage, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue, Alundra, Arc the Lad Collection, Raycrisis, ThunderForce V, Vanguard Bandits, Silpheed and Gungriffon Blaze, with Growlanser Generations out in two months. Working Designs CEO Victor Ireland has made approximately 3,710 Usenet posts since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

Also:

The Voyager 1 spacecraft has travelled approximately 2.5 billion miles since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

The rovers Spirit and Opportunity were proposed, authorized, announced, designed, launched and successfully landed upon Mars within the timeframe of Duke Nukem Forever’s development.

The majority of the children who were entering high school the school year following Duke Nukem Forever’s announcemnt are now eligible to drink.


Of the 21,400 Usenet posts concerning Duke Nukem Forever, here is one for every year.

April 30, 1997:

code:


> Actually I guess it makes sense. The article talks about> Duke Nukem Forever coming out a year from now. By that> time the Quake engine will be old hat as far as id’s concerned.> > I guess it just follows along with Duke staying one generation> of technology behind whatever id’s latest product is.It will be using the Quake _2_ engine. Read the link next time.


October 6, 1998:

code:


The other thing that crossed my mind is that we’re officially in thePentium II age. Minimum requirements say’s you need a P166– goodluck. I’ve got a PII 266 with 64MB Ram and a Righteous I, and thething huffed and puffed. Ok, I like all my detail on and at least640X480 resolution. And with a PII, I expect my games to run assmooth as glass. It doesn’t quite do that. With Half-Life and Sin andDuke Nukem Forever around the corner, future action games are gonnawant a PII. And since they feature 3dfx graphics why get them at allif you need to turn most of the detail off to play the game. (MaybeI’ll just get a Voodoo II).


December 20, 1999:

code:


My cable modem service sucks and UT netcode ain’t great(****!!!!!!!!!! DUKENUKEM FOREVER MIGHT HAVE SUCKY ONLINE PLAY!!!!!)anyway, i tried out heat.The server i was one had like 5 people and i got pretty good ping. So youguys should try out HEAT with a low number of players and see how your pingis


December 12, 2000:

code:


> What about Half-Life 2? Valve is being smart and keeping it on the QT, but> I think we will see HL2 by Xmas of 2001, which is sooner than we will see> TF2 or Duke Nukem Forever.Don’t be so quick to write off Duke Forever. What many people fail torealize is that 3DRealms have quite a lot of cash flow from the consoleports and licensing of Duke. They’re simply taking their time to finish thegame right. I’d look for it around September of next year provided itdoesn’t come sooner. I’m using some tea leaves that have a little more kick.=)


October 10, 2001:

code:


>what will be sooner released ? The new gn’r oder Duke Nukem Forever ? Or>will it be released in a bundle together ?From what I understand, the status of Duke Nukem Forever is in dire peril….the plot of the game involved protecting the president from assassination andalso some terrorist activities… which means the game will either be delayedat least a year in the interest of “good taste” or they’ll have to totallyrewrite the storylines and stuff.


April 26, 2002:

code:


Many of these will be out by xmas… I think the Xbox sales will go throughthe roof this xmas…> Rumored Killer Apps>> - Virtual Fighter X> - Neverwinter Nights> - World of Warcraft> - Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos> - Duke Nukem’ Forever> - Doom III> - Return to Castle Wolfenstein> - Dues Ex 2


June 30, 2003:

code:


> > If bandwidth is cheep to you, be sure to download the 600MB E3 movie of > > Half-Life 2 from fileplanet.com – it’s worth it, no question.> > It’s going to be a good September when this new game comes out.> > I really hope so. Aside from Deus Ex 2, it’s the only game I’ve really > looked forward to in years.I’m looking forward to Duke Nukem Forever, but only to see if they’ll finish it. When they started making it, I put $50 under the mattress so I could buy it, but my mattress gives a pretty good interest rate, and now I’ve just decided to buy all of 3DRealms with the money, and FIRE EVERYBODY FOR BEING TOTALLY INCOMPETENT. Following that, I’ll hire John Romero AND FIRE HIS ASS TOO, JUST BECAUSE I CAN.


March 24, 2004:

code:


WTF? They don’t owe you anything. They aren’t hyping it. They aren’t pushing out screenshots, movies and fake release dates. They’re just quietly getting on with it, leave them be!And if that doesn’t placate you, just think how good the strippers will look when it finally is released

29 Replies

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Noor 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 03:16

thanks man, nice collection. I’ve been looking forward to know the story behind DNF

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Noor 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 03:29

oh yeah and not to mention there is a DukeNukem movie coming up. Here is the website DukeNukemtheMovie.com

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bladder 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 03:39

:P LOL.

That was a fantastic read.

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SnprBoB86 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 04:14

This is why I prefer it when I don’t know a damn thing about a game until it gets great reviews.

I never even heard of FarCry until it was being used for benchmarking new computers I was going to buy. I skimmed some raving reviews and then decided I would buy the game to stress test my new machine. I was completely amazed and I didn’t have to wait more than two weeks (time from beginning of buyer research to receiving machine) to play it.

FarCry was a very pleasant surprize while I painfully wait for Half Life 2.

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Mihail121 102 Sep 06, 2004 at 05:18

What can i say ? I was a small kid who used to read comp. games magazines, had no idea of programming, had no idea that internet exists and was just beginning to learn english bad then, when DNF was announced.

But now, almost 8 years - i know english, i know german, i (almost) know russian, i can program, i changed \~30 girlfriends and etc.

So remembering RNF (and Pray!!!) i remember the good ol’ times!

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NomadRock 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 05:23

@Francois Hamel

The Voyager 1 spacecraft has travelled approximately 2.5 billion miles since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

The rovers Spirit and Opportunity were proposed, authorized, announced, designed, launched and successfully landed upon Mars within the timeframe of Duke Nukem Forever’s development.

[snapback]10616[/snapback]

HAHA, that is amazing. I love these extra details included. You have to admit, he has perhaps the best job in the world. In game development the indie people never release, never get anything out of it, and never get paid. The proffessionals get paid, but usually get fired after the project is done in a few short years. He has found a way to get paid a salary to be an indie developer forever! Amazing. That is why they call it Duke Nukem Forever.

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NomadRock 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 05:27

Mihail, you are 16 and you have had 30 girlfriends in the past 8 years? You have got a pretty bad turnover man. Do yourself a favor and take a break! Kudos on learning that many spoken languages. I can pick up programming languages in hours, but I studied Spanish for years and never got very good at it. If only there were more constant rules in spoken language just as there are in programming languages, maybe I would be able to learn. Oh well. I am eternally thankful that the internet is mostly in my mother tongue, cause if it wasn’t I would probably die.

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davepermen 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 06:49

heh, “girlfriends”.. i don’t call a girl my girlfriend if we haven’t spent at least some months together…

then again, since duke forever started, that could’ve been about 100gf’s then :D :D :D

i guess the next favoured duke engine will be doom3, right? how many engines have they licenced now for .. nothing? :D i can’t wait for the game.

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anubis 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 13:44

i think i bought a voodoo2 in the year that DNF was announced… i might be off by a year though…

davepermen : you remember the “one guy” we talked about yesterday ? i think we might have found him *points at mihail* ;) so what do we do with him now that we got him *grabs for his torch and pitchfork* ?

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davepermen 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 14:03

hm, whats up? hehe.. harhar! :D

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anubis 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 14:15

i was refering to our conclusion about the misunderstandings between women and men and that there has to be the one guy that… well, maybe you remember now

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Mihail121 102 Sep 06, 2004 at 15:33

Hey wait, wait, WAIT!! All of you!!!

First, there’s nothing bad in having 30 or 300 girlfriends in a short time. It’s all about having a little fun (both sides).

I don’t know what you guys exactly want!! Maybe i should marry on 18 and have a bunch of kids and take social welfare? Cheesh.. you guys freak me out sometimes…

As a mather of fact having a girlfriend and learning languages is extremely easy to mix :) You use the language learning to stress yourself and the girlfriend to relax! Of course after your current gf sees she can’t have all of your money all the time you’ll have to look for a new one..

Nomad: You’ve learned spanish for years and never got a grasp on it? You must be joking, no? The daughter of my hostfamily in germany has only learned Spanish for 1 year no and she doesn’t have any problem at all to talk with the people in Argentina…

And after i learned english for 7 years and german for 3 i was able to learn russian in 1! It’s quite easy when you know the grammatical, lexical and morphological structures and rules of 3 languages. You just know what to look for :) Try and you’ll see!

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anubis 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 15:57

First, there’s nothing bad in having 30 or 300 girlfriends in a short time. It’s all about having a little fun (both sides).

I don’t know what you guys exactly want!! Maybe i should marry on 18 and have a bunch of kids and take social welfare? Cheesh.. you guys freak me out sometimes…

As a mather of fact having a girlfriend and learning languages is extremely easy to mix smile.gif You use the language learning to stress yourself and the girlfriend to relax! Of course after your current gf sees she can’t have all of your money all the time you’ll have to look for a new one..

i’m sorry to tell you this “misho” but you are immature and don’t seem to know a lot about women in the first place… grow up will ya ?
you should especially think again about your last sentence… maybe i’m just being an ass here… anyway, stop listening to manowar…

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davepermen 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 16:24

hint: if you quickly change girlfriends, they are not GIRLFRIENDS. girlfriends are the one that you LOVE and that stay for long.

well.. at least in theory. today, people call a one-night stand a relationship. in 10 years, we call that a marriage, for sure! :D

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NomadRock 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 19:49

No, I am really that poor with the spoken language.

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anubis 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 20:51

sometimes it’s funny to see when threads totally wander off topic :)

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davepermen 101 Sep 06, 2004 at 21:15

sometimes??

it’s always fun to see that..

(had to add the second line, just to make sure we don’t actually PLAN to get offtopic :D)

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Mihail121 102 Sep 07, 2004 at 10:24

anubis: ok it’s not going to me cause i’m thin and 1, 95 cm tall but do you REALLY believe that some girl will go you with some fat boy, with pickles (just giving example here, nothing wrong with such people) and etc. but with money just because she’s in ‘love’ with him??? And believe it or not that’s what happens in 75% of the cases.

Now, will you be so nice to tell me what ManOwaR has to do with all that?

“but you are immature and don’t seem to know a lot about women in the first place… grow up will ya ?”

perhaps you’re right but i kinda like it this way. perhaps i’ll get bored sooner or later and change the situation it eventually but for now… Or wait? If i wanna emigrate that means i don’t like the situation or? Oh damn :D we’ll just see what happens!

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davepermen 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 10:49

well, everyone has to grow up. so will you.

PARTY!!! :D

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EvilSmile 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 12:43

In Need For Speed: Porsche, at the end of the race the status of a player would be first, second and so on and it could also be “DNF”.
I think it meant “Did Not Finish” :D

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davepermen 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 12:50

hehe

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NomadRock 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 13:23

Yeah, I remember that from all the games where you could crash your car or otherwise incapacitate it.

Same thing in Need For Speed: Underground when you pushed your engine too much and let it overheat.

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UnknownStranger 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 13:44

@Mihail121

“but you are immature and don’t seem to know a lot about women in the first place… grow up will ya ?”

perhaps you’re right but i kinda like it this way. perhaps i’ll get bored sooner or later and change the situation it eventually but for now… Or wait? If i wanna emigrate that means i don’t like the situation or? Oh damn :D we’ll just see what happens!

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That’s the spirit! We 87s simply know how to enjoy life, now don’t we? :D

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anubis 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 14:09

@Mihail121

anubis: ok it’s not going to me cause i’m thin and 1, 95 cm tall

my thin, tall and rugged cowboy ;)

but do you REALLY believe that some girl will go you with some fat boy, with pickles (just giving example here, nothing wrong with such people) and etc. but with money just because she’s in ‘love’ with him???

no, i believe that the idea that women are attracted to money (be it for love or anything else) belongs in the same category of believes as the one about long penises. personally i have never met such a woman but that’s maybe because i don’t try to lure them with my money nor with my huge… anyway, if all the 30 woman you had (if that’s the case) fell into this category you, as i mentioned, don’t have a clue about real woman and about relationship.
(re-reading your post… no i don’t believe that a woman would go out with a man if he had pickles in his face [maybe if it was corn or cucumber instead] even if he had a lot of money)

And believe it or not that’s what happens in 75% of the cases.

how many rich people are there ? probably not 75% of the population in any country you can name. for that low percentage of people who are, you might have a point (on the other hand even bill gates has a wife and kids). for the other 90% you don’t

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Mihail121 102 Sep 07, 2004 at 14:48

my thin, tall and rugged cowboy

Everything else but cowboy please! :D

no, i believe that the idea that

I think you’re mistakening _girl_ and _woman_ here.. i’ve never dated anyone >19 years and, believe me, EVERYTHING that attracts them is: money, big arms (anabol kings and stuff :)) , big … yeah, nice new clothes from Gucci or other such junk, new and shiny phone, perhaps a car and of course money :).

All stuff i don’t have (it’s not right to give kids such thing anyway… better to teach them how to deserve all those shiny stuff) so that’s the explanation of why the _girls_ don’t stay with me that long.

Another one might be that i’m a computer/language learning nerd that loves to tell them stories about what cool words he’ve found in the new dictionary!

how many people are rich there…

More than you can imagine. Don’t forget:

-weapons
-drugs
-girls for prostitues
-organs
-beggars in big Europe cities

where do you think all this come from???

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anubis 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 14:59

hmm… yeah… i never lonegd for a girl/woman that is attracted by : “anabol kings and stuff”. maybe you ought to hang around with other people ;)

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NomadRock 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 16:06

I think you are misconstruing what we mean when we say girlfriend and what we mean when we say chick we are friends with or f**k buddies, or possibly needy clingy people.

The 30 girls you have been with pretty clearly fall into the last three catagories. So our contention is twofold. The first is that most people would not refer to these people as actual girlfriends. The second is that perhaps you should begin to slow down a bit and think about meeting someone you can actually fall in love with and thereby find a real girlfriend.

I hope this clears up some misunderstandings.

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Mihail121 102 Sep 07, 2004 at 16:56

*LoL* the only girl i felt in love with, tried to steel some dumb clothes from some shop in Regensburg (\~40 kms north-east from Muenich) …

perhaps anubis is right, perhaps i stick with the wrong people…

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CyraX 101 Sep 07, 2004 at 18:54

The name says it all DukeNukem © TM R Forever
They named it forever because they will never make it.
They have seen generations of engines come and go. I think they will continue to do so.
Jokes apart - what is it that you think is really sagging the game down?
I mean is it the team or the feature creep (yeah talk to me about feature creeps in games) or is it just plain bad management?
And yeah lets hope that they release the game before John Carmack has his second child or @least before he invokes his pension plan…

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