Firefox 4 is upon us!

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TheNut 179 Mar 09, 2011 at 19:25

Firefox is finally cracking down on their code and will soon release an official 4.0. The IE team is supposedly releasing 9.0 this Monday, so I guess it’s Mozilla’s turn to bake a cake for the IE team after they received a nice one from them back when FF3 released :)

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The 4.0 RC is pretty solid. Clean look and feel, and of course full of HTML 5 goodness. Certain web pages finally scroll smoothly now, which in itself is worthy of a version number. It’s going to be an interesting year for web devs, and especially for game devs.

Here’s a quick ‘n dirty WebGL propaganda demo I made for FF. Might spruce it up with a couple surprises and post it to chromeexperiments.com :lol:

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Mihail121 102 Mar 09, 2011 at 19:37

Firefox is the worst browser I’ve ever experienced. Firefox’ code is the worst piece of development effort I’ve ever seen and worked with in my life. Praising Firefox is praising the devil. Never thought I would say that, but IE9 is neat and clean and fast. I work in/with Chrome. I know what’s going on inside Chrome, it’s so fast. It’s actually also usable. Oh, wait, almost non-existent RAM footprint.

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_oisyn 101 Mar 09, 2011 at 19:54

I’m with Mihail. FireFox has had it’s days, but they are long gone now. Completely overtaken by Chrome, and soon by IE9.

.edit: that reminds me, Chrome 10 was released recently, I have to update :D

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Nerd_Skywalker 101 Mar 09, 2011 at 20:01

Chromium :D

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vrnunes 102 Mar 09, 2011 at 20:04

Chrome rulez! And Chrome supports WebGL by some time now. =)

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TheNut 179 Mar 09, 2011 at 20:46

I don’t doubt for a minute the code in FF is garbage (most open source software is), but every browser has their perks and probs. The plugin repository for Firefox is where the browser shines.

Firefox is still popular according to here and here, so I’m not the only devil worshiper :)

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_oisyn 101 Mar 09, 2011 at 21:45

Well obviously. People didn’t change overnight from IE to FF. Still a lot of people are using IE6 and 7. Likewise, people will not change overnight from FF to Chrome or IE9 :D

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Mihail121 102 Mar 09, 2011 at 22:12

@TheNut

I don’t doubt for a minute the code in FF is garbage (most open source software is), but every browser has their perks and probs. The plugin repository for Firefox is where the browser shines. Firefox is still popular according to here and here, so I’m not the only devil worshiper :)

I won’t argue, Twilight is also quite popular just as Justin B. Firefox once gave an alternative to IE. People loved it, but sadly it became a bloat. Then came Chrome with every feature I need, easy sync and a stylistic touch.

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Kenneth_Gorking 101 Mar 09, 2011 at 23:23

I read a comparison between the two, and apparently, they are pretty even: http://www.conceivablytech.com/6020/products/firefox-4-rc-vs-ie9-rc-the-first-duel

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touch_the_sky 103 Mar 10, 2011 at 00:30

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stodge 101 Mar 10, 2011 at 00:43

I’m developing an SVG based web application at work; Firefox 3.6.x is vastly slower than Chrome. Significantly so! The Firefox 4 beta didn’t improve things.

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vrnunes 102 Mar 10, 2011 at 01:51

Chrome is not only fast, but its interface is simple and effective – it just does what it’s expected to do – browse the web – fast. And it loads itself fast. And searching directly from the address bar is incredibly handy. My current favorite by far.

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alphadog 101 Mar 14, 2011 at 13:33

@Mihail121

Firefox is the worst browser I’ve ever experienced. Firefox’ code is the worst piece of development effort I’ve ever seen and worked with in my life.

Based on what? Have you scanned the FF source yourself and are able to comment?

My user experience has been fine, and the wealth of plugins make it even better. Never crashed. Now, Chrome has always had the faster experience, but its code is probably no better. They had to patch their WebKit (FOSS project used in Safari and Chrome) for a serious flaw after Pwn2Own. Firefox survived too, BTW.
@TheNut

the code in FF is garbage (most open source software is)

I really wonder where you guys get this. Most FOSS projects with a big following and an actual history are probably better than most similar proprietary code.

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Mihail121 102 Mar 14, 2011 at 13:48

@alphadog

Based on what? Have you scanned the FF source yourself and are able to comment? My user experience has been fine, and the wealth of plugins make it even better. Never crashed. Now, Chrome has always had the faster experience, but its code is probably no better. They had to patch their WebKit (FOSS project used in Safari and Chrome) for a serious flaw after Pwn2Own. Firefox survived too, BTW.

Why, yes I have, thanks for asking, I’m almost forced to work with it every day and know my around. Or do you really believe I would give it the price of worst example of badly written and maintained source code based on nothing? We developers also wish for “usability in development”…

Just by the way, why are you defending it?! Why are you defending a browser using nearest-neighbor to scale images?? Look at your calender, especially the year-part, it’s 2011.

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alphadog 101 Mar 14, 2011 at 14:05

@Mihail121

Just by the way, why are you defending it?! Why are you defending a browser using nearest-neighbor to scale images?? Look at your calender, especially the year-part, it’s 2011.

Not defending it, just wondering what you can state are the most atrocious parts. Saying “it’s the worst evar!” without substantiation is lame. And, if “nearest neighbor” is your biggest complaint about FF…

For the record, I use a mix of Chrome and FF. Old habits die hard, and Chrome has not had some key plugins I’ve used in FF till recently. Between Webkit’s daily security flaws and Google’s nature to be so invasive, it’s like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire… :D

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TheNut 179 Mar 14, 2011 at 14:18

@alphadog

I really wonder where you guys get this. Most FOSS projects with a big following and an actual history are probably better than most similar proprietary code.

  • We just spew out BS and hope nobody asks questions :lol:

Seriously though, I’ve dug into numerous open source projects such as Gimp, Inkscape, Blender, MySQL, and numerous libraries and apps for Linux. It’s amazing the number of compile issues and serious warnings I run into. Some times I just have to fix a portion of the code, other times I’ve had to rewrite several methods (FFMPEG). When I look at the code structure, it is really sloppy and poorly organized. No commenting, in some cases the code appears to be deliberately obfuscated, and in one case I remember important compile configuration parameters were not even being respected. Chrome is no exception to this either. The fact that Google uses their own build tools and with a 1 gig repository speaks volumes of how bad that is. It’s poorly organized IMO.

Proprietary software is no better, so I won’t glorify them either. There is however the potential for disciplinary action against bad coding habits in the workforce where there is virtually none with open source.

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alphadog 101 Mar 14, 2011 at 14:26

@TheNut

Proprietary software is no better, so I won’t glorify them either. There is however the potential for disciplinary action against bad coding habits in the workforce where there is virtually none with open source.

But, that’s my point. IMO, from what I have seen over the years, proprietary code is no better, nor any worse, on average.

You’ve seen someone disciplined for “bad code”? Really?!? Wow, I’d love to hear that story. It’s like someone seeing the Sasquatch! :D

In my experience, if it ships with minimal impact on support, it’s considered “good” in most commercial settings.

Lots of code can get fixed in FOSS in way not available in proprietary. Hell, you just admitted to making your own fixes!

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TheNut 179 Mar 14, 2011 at 21:56

In school they call it detention. In the workforce, they call it overtime :lol:

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Mihail121 102 Mar 15, 2011 at 00:11

The absolutely most readable source code ever is in my eyes that of the great epic game Seven Kingdoms 2: The Frythan Wars.

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moe 101 Mar 15, 2011 at 10:27

@alphadog

You’ve seen someone disciplined for “bad code”? Really?!? Wow, I’d love to hear that story.

Does extra work count as being disciplined?
In my current workplace in the beginning, my supervisor made code reviews. If he was not satisfied I had to rewrite the code. Not exactly like being disciplined, but pretty close. He was quite picky about it. At first it was annoying but in hindsight it was very helpful and the source code did get more readable and cleaner. It pays of if you work in a team…

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alphadog 101 Mar 15, 2011 at 12:20

@moe

Does extra work count as being disciplined?

Oh, I’m sure there are anecdotal stories. I do code reviews with any team I’ve been on. Personally, I prefer pair programming to avoid reviews.

However, the general trend is to look to closely at your colleague’s code lest you be judged too! Kinda a “who’s gonna throw the first stone” thing… :)

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victory08 101 Mar 29, 2011 at 13:47

No doubt new version of Firefox is not so good as it was ‘painted’. But there is an interesting fact that over 2.5 millions of users downloaded it in the first day. I suppose that they are all big enthusiasts and optimists.

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Mihail121 102 Mar 29, 2011 at 19:57

@victory08

No doubt new version of Firefox is not so good as it was ‘painted’. But there is an interesting fact that over 2.5 millions of users downloaded it in the first day. I suppose that they are all big enthusiasts and optimists.

No bots included?

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alphadog 101 Mar 29, 2011 at 21:00

One of the most common Chrome “advantages” was speed.

Browser loads on convoluted and meaningless benchmarks were something like 298.25463635ms for Chrome vs 298.25463640ms for FF3… and the Chromists cheered and wagged their fingers in triumph!

No so much anymore. Now, they both run meaningless benchmarks with dueling wins.

Meh.

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_oisyn 101 Mar 29, 2011 at 22:18

Aside from the point you’re making, FF3 was way slower than Chrome.