How do you Design a levelling system and a DPS system from a MMO?

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ODSTsteels 101 Feb 26, 2011 at 16:46

LET ME REPHRASE THAT
How do you make a levelling system and DPS system FOR an MMO game?

Hey
I am currently writing a GDD that i hope can be sent within the next week but i need to know how to create a working Levelling system as well as a working DPS system for an MMORPG could anyone give me any pointers because i dont know were to start.

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rouncer 104 Feb 26, 2011 at 17:40

what does DPS stand for?
what does GDD stand for?

A levelling system is easy.
give everyone an experience variable… whenever they kill an enemy they get a value added to it… every time you hit a power of 2 you go up a level, and you get stat increases.

Really, its not the most challenging part to making a networked rpg, so the question is a little silly, you should be asking different questions.

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Reedbeta 168 Feb 26, 2011 at 19:03

GDD is game-design document, but as for DPS I have no idea…Department of Public Safety? Digital Photography School? :)

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Tottel 101 Feb 26, 2011 at 21:23

Damage per Second, I suppose. :)

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Nerd_Skywalker 101 Feb 27, 2011 at 02:26

Dangerous Pizza Store? :lol:

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alphadog 101 Mar 02, 2011 at 20:42

I once used self-leveling compound before tiling the bathroom. Shit was cash.

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Dirus 101 Mar 06, 2011 at 02:26

DPS System..

Weapon DPS = RoF(how many swings/shots per min) * Damage per hit

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rouncer 104 Mar 06, 2011 at 04:18

What if you wanted your game realistic instead of crappy damage and health bars, then dps wouldnt mean shit.

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alphadog 101 Mar 06, 2011 at 15:13

@Dirius

Weapon DPS = RoF(how many swings/shots per min) * Damage per hit

There’s a million and one ways to record damage on objects in a game. You’ll have to be more specific… a lot more specific.

For example, what kind of game is it? Are we talking armored knights wielding swords, space vehicles wielding turret lasers or cute bunnies wielding sticky lollipops? How precise do you want it? Is the game real-time or turn-based? I mean, I’m not sure what you expect here, as there is no magical One Solution To Rule Them All here…

Also, what do you mean by “How do you make a DPS system?” Technically? Conceptually?

The question is so excruciatingly vast and generalized, I am at a loss to know even where to start. It’s like a contractor saying: “I want to build a 40-story apartment complex. How do you design a room?”

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alphadog 101 Mar 06, 2011 at 15:14

@rouncer

What if you wanted your game realistic instead of crappy damage and health bars, then dps wouldnt mean shit.

Lolwut?

Ask a weird question, get a weird answer, I guess.

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Dirus 101 Mar 06, 2011 at 23:11

@rouncer

What if you wanted your game realistic instead of crappy damage and health bars, then dps wouldnt mean shit.

Even realistic you’d still need a DPS system. I could shoot you all day with a BB gun and you’d still be alive after. If i used a .22 you might last a minute or two. Bring out a gatlin gun and you’d last maybe 10 seconds at most. A grenade, well you got to the count of 3.

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rouncer 104 Mar 07, 2011 at 03:36

@Dirus

Even realistic you’d still need a DPS system. I could shoot you all day with a BB gun and you’d still be alive after. If i used a .22 you might last a minute or two. Bring out a gatlin gun and you’d last maybe 10 seconds at most. A grenade, well you got to the count of 3.

unless its a head shot, then all damage is 100%, so the dps system is not really relevant anymore.

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Dirus 101 Mar 07, 2011 at 06:24

@rouncer

unless its a head shot, then all damage is 100%, so the dps system is not really relevant anymore.

You sure? I could be wearing a hat.. or I could be in my shop grinding with a full face shield, not every weapon would do 100% damage in those conditions, espeically if it was an Airsoft Gun or a .177 pellet pistol, or a Nerf Gun.. Let’s go out even further and say I could be roleplaying Big Daddy from BioShock in my parents basement and wearing one of those massive metal diving helmets.. you think even a .22 would do 100% damage in that situation?

I get it.. Make fun of the poor guy/girl for not knowing enough to ask the right question, or in this case “phrase it” so they sounds like they’re not fingerpainting a Design Doc at recess or after his nap.. You would suck in a Big Brother Role, or even Parenthood in general.. *shrugs*

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rouncer 104 Mar 07, 2011 at 11:10

you die not because of some unrealistic health meter reaching 0, what you do die of is your internal organs bursting, or a bullet hitting a weakspot in the armour, all im saying is there is more realistic methods of killing a player than giving him a health bar that gets hacked at by weapons different amounts.

Do you really think DPS is realistic at all? I dont see how… it actually always looked like a weakness of most games.

Realism is my favorite thing of all, and health bars were never realistic to me.

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alphadog 101 Mar 07, 2011 at 12:53

rouncer, explain to me how you would create a game that would record “realistic” damage without numbers? Or, do you simply object to the actual display bars themselves, which are simply a way to visualize the numbers behind the game?

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rouncer 104 Mar 08, 2011 at 01:32

Well, you could use csg to literally blow holes in armour, and the user can see how damaged his armour is, there is no “armour left” variable.
(theres an example of replacing a basic guage with something more realistic)

This way, if you shoot the same area twice, you get twice the effect, with an armour guage, this is not possible.

Then you fire rays through the holes to the body, and see if you intersect any internal organs or not, and if you hit an organ, then maybe you could have a metre for time left to live as blood spills out internally and starts funnelling out of your mouth.

Well you could use numbers sometimes, when its ok to do so, but a more advanced game would use simple metres and guages less, im pretty sure.

Imagine a tank game, and you literally ricoche the missile off the angle of the armour it hit, for more or less penetration, theres countless things that games have never implemented that would improve realism.

What im saying sounds dumb to you because it has been neglected so much in programming for simplicity instead that my argument sounds weak.

There, I explained.

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alphadog 101 Mar 08, 2011 at 02:52

So, instead of a health bar, you have a visual representation of the damage. Still, there are numbers tracking enough energy to put a hole in armor. There’s still numbers behind there; you are just arguing for a different representation of those numbers.

Gotcha.

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TheNut 179 Mar 08, 2011 at 03:07

I think it depends on the game. FPS devs realized the whole health percentage thing is weak, so now you’re allowed 2 - 3 shots, each one progressively slowing you down and reducing your vision, but you can recover from it. I quite like the way that works in Bad Company 2. The swedes pulled through on that one.

However RPG games must follow the commandments set forth by the D&D guild, lest you wish to receive the backlash of a thousand nerdlingers. As far as the DPS goes, either follow the D&D rules or just build something like it. It’s not difficult. Basic math. (base + enhancements) * modifers = final value. Pretty much every game with a damage system follows that rule.

rouncer, we’re talking about games, right? :) Pretty much every inch of our body there’s an organ, artery, or important bone that would have an effect on us. Probably due to humanitarian reasons, but if the military issued standard 50 cal bullets to all personnel, then DPS flies right out the window cause nothing will stop that from stopping you. Even a toe shot would put you 6 feet under.

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rouncer 104 Mar 08, 2011 at 03:19

The acronym DPS is more suited to unrealistic slow mmo combat, not for action sims.
And thats how this nerd likes to play, with real danger… im like john wayne behind my mouse.

Hey you know my space station? ive got this insane new idea for a modeller now, csg and sculpting, pretty tricky but i think i can handle it, im like a code monster man!

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alphadog 101 Mar 08, 2011 at 16:57

Sometimes a game is just a game. Not everything needs to be a realistic simulation of organs imploding that appeals primarily to sociopaths…

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Lokked 101 Mar 15, 2011 at 22:13

I think rouncer is turned off by the commonplace visualization of an entity’s lifeforce via a Healthbar. Healthbars are an ancient representation of this attribute.

It’s entirely possible to simulate Real-Life vitality with a Health Bar:
- The Brain can handle a measurable impact
- You can lose a measurable % of blood before Brain function ceases
- A bone can sustain a measurable impact or pressure before breaking

Video Games (currently) feed the Visual and Auditory sense of the player, but fail to provide any Kinesthetic feedback, and so a player wouldn’t necessarily know they now have a huge hole in their body armor, unless otherwise indicated by a Health Bar.

I agree with rouncer on some aspects, though. The Lifeforce of an entity should be better represented than by a range of 0 to 100%.

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fireside 141 Mar 16, 2011 at 00:12

I think dropping abstract representations like health bars just causes a loss in strategy. You don’t see them on FPS because there isn’t a lot of strategy going on there, it’s just kill or be killed depending who’s faster and in the right place. You see them in strategy games because it’s one more piece of information you can use to weigh a decision.

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gillvane 101 Mar 21, 2011 at 19:38

@rouncer

you die not because of some unrealistic health meter reaching 0, what you do die of is your internal organs bursting, or a bullet hitting a weakspot in the armour, all im saying is there is more realistic methods of killing a player than giving him a health bar that gets hacked at by weapons different amounts.

Do you really think DPS is realistic at all? I dont see how… it actually always looked like a weakness of most games.

Realism is my favorite thing of all, and health bars were never realistic to me.

Fun > realism

Realistically you need to go to the bathroom. Realistically you would die once, and never play the game again (perma death). Realistically whether you died or not would be immaterial because you would be in so much pain after being shot you would not be able to function on the battle field any more. Realistically you could catch an infection and die of gangrene. Again, it would be perma death, and you would never play the game again. Or your limb would be amputated, and realistically it would never grow back, and you would be gimped for the rest of the time you played the game.

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gillvane 101 Mar 21, 2011 at 19:43

@fireside

I think dropping abstract representations like health bars just causes a loss in strategy. You don’t see them on FPS because there isn’t a lot of strategy going on there, it’s just kill or be killed depending who’s faster and in the right place. You see them in strategy games because it’s one more piece of information you can use to weigh a decision.

not only that, unless you make them entirely random, players will figure them out, and post damage tables on Alakazam.

the players that use the damage tables will be more effective than those that don’t.

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Lokked 101 Mar 22, 2011 at 22:33

@gillvane

Fun > realism Realistically you need to go to the bathroom. Realistically you would die once, and never play the game again (perma death). Realistically whether you died or not would be immaterial because you would be in so much pain after being shot you would not be able to function on the battle field any more. Realistically you could catch an infection and die of gangrene. Again, it would be perma death, and you would never play the game again. Or your limb would be amputated, and realistically it would never grow back, and you would be gimped for the rest of the time you played the game.

And each combination of Shift/Ctrl/Alt + Alphanumeric Key controls a muscle group…..Right?

I think it can be agreed that the term realism means different things to different people. I wouldn’t focus too much on the vocabulary used. It is implied that game realism has limits.

“Fun” is another word that has very little meaning.

As for On Topic,

Pull out a Spreadsheet, create 2 entities with HP and defined abilities, and slap it out Cell by Cell until you think it works.
Use a Log function of Time vs Level to figure out the level curve, decide how often a player is rewarded with experience.

If you are worrying about DPS, I don’t think you’ve made it past the first stages of planning. Varying DPS will affect the Time of an encounter, and this can be modified simply by giving an entity more HP/Mitigation.