16 replies to this topic

[onyxthedog]

What is a good way to get started down the path of graphics? Most of you know what I know and don't know. But a quick refresh: pretty good with C/C++, limited math background, and almost no physics. (Oh and I am horrible with paint programs:wacko: )

[Reedbeta]

http://nehe.gamedev.net/ - see the OpenGL Tutorials in the left-hand column.

[starstutter]

onyxthedog said:

limited math background

Well, first off let me tell you that this is not something you need to particularly worry about, despite what the vast majority will tell you who are naturally good at math. I know I shouldn't even be saying this because the last time I said that graphics programming didn't require a deep understanding of math, I basicly got harassed like Ozzie Ozborne if he were to take a vacation in the Vatican.

Anyway, the point is, I'm probably one of the worst people at math you will meet in your entire life (and I'm not joking what-so-ever), but I can do logic inside out and backwards. I'm assuming you can too just by the sheer fact that you're a programmer. So when someone tells you that doing graphics is impossible without knowing calculus, just brush it off.

Of course that's not saying you should not pay attention to math in other areas, but all I'm saying is that I've been doing complex 2D and 3D graphics for several years now and never once have I applied typical math skills in any form more complex than integrated 1 (ie, like you would do in a school class).

[fireside]

I like Blender as a modeler but a lot of people find it hard to learn. If you're not good at paint programs then a modeler is probably the best way to go. You can save models in 2d and use them in 2d games, etc. Some people buy models or find free ones but I would try to stay away from that if at all possible, unless you're completely hopeless at graphics. Most of it is finding a good tutorial. I always start everything with a cube and it works for me.

Noob to pro has some good tutorials
http://en.wikibooks....3D:_Noob_to_Pro

The pros for Blender: It's free. You never have to worry about paying for updates, etc. It's very popular. It has a lot of exporters for different formats and you can even write your own because the API is exposed.

Blenderartists has a good forum for asking questions:
http://blenderartist...g/cms/index.php

Expect to work at it. Modeling is every bit as hard as programming and takes a lot of practice.

Something else you might want to try on the 2d end of things is a vector art program like Inkscape:
http://www.inkscape.org/

[onyxthedog]

I forgot to mention I am still in 7th grade, but that shouldn't be much of a problem considering I program. I do have GIMP, but I find it incredibly hard to use because it is a paint program. But I am sorry I am not sure if I know what you are talking about when you say integrated 1?

I will look into blender, but my best friend is very artistically inclined, especially on a computer. He may end up wanting to do all my graphics anyways. But I think it would still be good to know.

[starstutter]

onyxthedog said:

I forgot to mention I am still in 7th grade

wow... are you serious? I never would have thought that. I think you're honestly the most mature 13 year old I've ever seen. [/complement]

onyxthedog said:

I am not sure if I know what you are talking about when you say integrated 1

Algebra 1 was what I meant. And that's really just referring to the constant use of variables. You actually need a lot more math for things like physics and the game mechanics than you do for graphics. Things I constantly use from integrated 1 are like:

pythagorean theorem: finding distances in 2D or 3D space

sin/cosine/tangent: finding angles between points in 2D space

slope (rise/run): in 2D space, finding the angle/slope of a hill or the ground (or just any flat surface)

[onyxthedog]

Thanks, I really am in 7th grade(13), but I will turn 14 on October 7th, or atleast that is what my birth certificate says. I definitely understand alot more about math and computers then my friends.

I have not actually sold a program, but my dad does have BS in Computer Science from the University of North Carolina in Wilmington. So I get alot of help from him when it comes to understanding advanced topics. ( I do know alot more about Neural Networks and Genetic Algorithms :yes: )


I don't understand tangents, cotangents, or sine/cosine, but I am good at grasping concepts so I can pick up it quickly. I do understand variables though. ( I am about 1/2 through with Pre Algebra.)

[rouncer]

You can actually work out a lot of maths on your own, youll learn slowly
but itll all be applied experience so its worth more.

Youll to get more fluent with the basic side of maths. (which is very important
in programming.)

art? just keep practicing your drawings on your paper, do just as much
drawings as you do code, and hopefully youll end up like walt disney.

you know, it could happen.

the cheap advice people usually give you, is you must learn anatomy, but
I think training your visual imagination is just as important. (but anatomy is very important too)

hey starstutter - why dont you make an sss shader without maths.

[starstutter]

rouncer said:

Youll to get more fluent with the basic side of maths. (which is very important
in programming.)

That I agree with. I would sum it up by saying that it's an intricate system of combining basic math with complex logic (very complex logic). Logic I can do inside out and backwards... math not so much.

rouncer said:

hey starstutter - why dont you make an sss shader without maths.

You know I actually made something similar to that a while back. It wasn't a real SSS shader (because it was a real time application) but it did make some creative use of depth mapping and normal sampling.

If you really want to know, I was saying that *REGULAR* math had little application to programming. I can't recall the last time I used an actual meothod for mathmatics that came from anything in the standard math classes (and forget about applications for them). On top of that, I was talking with one of my professors today who has been in graphics programming for 12+ years and programming in general for about 30. According to him it's about the same story, very rarley did he ever use any classic (classroom) math skills.

If you don't belive the above statement, don't bother telling me that. I'm done justifying myself to countless space invader style waves of people telling me that 3D graphics are impossible without being a mathimatician. If I do say so myself, I'm doing pretty damn good with next-gen visuals.

[Zuka]

Hmm, I'm 12, and I know basic C++, all there is to know about Lua, and I'm not too bad at Javascript.

[marek-knows.com]

When working with graphics you need to have a good tool. One that has layers makes developing graphics much easier. Paint is a pain!

[timothyinspa]

cool oynthedog XD continue the good work! 13 yrs old into computering XD nice choice of future !

[Zuka]

So? I don't even turn 13 for another month or so, and I'm already working on my own MMOFPS, complete with 'smart' AI, a space shooter type section, and even the ability to walk around in your ship.

[timothyinspa]

wow more cool lol, how did u learn those stuff? XD

[onyxthedog]

Zuka said:

So? I don't even turn 13 for another month or so, and I'm already working on my own MMOFPS, complete with 'smart' AI, a space shooter type section, and even the ability to walk around in your ship.

I confused to whether you already have those complete or you will complete them.


P.S.Saying you are going to build MMOFPS with computers current state is almost like saying you will fly with out the help of any apparatus by jumping of the Empire State Building. Modern computers just can't handle all of the things that you need for an MMOFPS and stay lagless enough for people to want to play them. I mean look at how much a game like Guild Wars can lag and then about a 1000 + bullets every 30 seconds streaming out of the guns. Just won't work.

[timothyinspa]

Lol i agree with oynx

[yakul]

I didn't read everything, and I didn't understood completly what the OP asked for.
But if you didn't create any game before in your life, I recommend that you start with a small 2D game, and build up from.
But thats just my own opinion.