36 replies to this topic

[Grellin]

Homayoon said:

. . . IMHO the most important aspect of a game would be the gameplay not the interface, and there can be (in fact there are) well-designed, complex, attractive, text-based games that seem far more appealling to me than an easy to play, although beautiful, graphics game . . .

I was one of the "kids" that played the original text games on my old Atari 400 and TRS-80 and definately agree that the games can be fun. That being said, I believe the most important aspect of any game is it's primary medium of relaying information. In a graphical game, the better the graphics are and the more intuitive they are, the better experience the player will have. Don't get me wrong, you can have terrific graphics and still have a crappy game.

For a text game the primary medium isn't as easy. First, you have to have a compelling story, rich with descriptions of the world the player is in. The logic must be solid since the player will be following it to get from point A to point Z. The use of language is the most important aspect of a text game. Once you know your target audience, you can tailor your use of language to cater to that group. Because you don't have sounds and graphics to help you tell the story, you must be able to paint a vivid picture of what is going on, be able to instill a sense of urgency in the player about the mission, and end the story in a gratifying manner that will leave the player with a true sense of occomplishment.

To me, that is extremely intimidating to think about. :geek:

[Almos]

Contrary to Woodspeak, I used to play a lot of text-adventure games, and I'm still a fan of this form of entertainment. Same with books; actually, I've learnt about programming by reading them. To be frank, I don't know of other way of learning; the brain-plugs like that we've seen in Matrix are still a distant future, and so we'll have to rely on the archaic, textual means of transmitting information for a long, long time.

My three cents with regards to the question that started the entire thread: the gameplay style is what dictates the type of the feedback. If the game is going to be primarily action-oriented, then it will be rather difficult (though not impossible) to make it into a piece of interactive fiction. On the other hand, creating art - be it pre-rendered 3d image or plain 2d picture, not to mention 3d scenes rendered in the real time - is more time-consuming than writing a line of text. Bear in mind, also, that the times we happen to be living in are profoundly illiterate; most gamers are spoiled by most of today's offerings and don't pay attention to the game that lacks eye-candy visuals. They won't even bother with playing something that forces them to actually focus on task other than blasting the incoming enemies. If you've got a great idea for a storyline-driven game, and don't mind the fact that it won't reach the broad audience - go with text. Otherwise use the graphic output; but beware - doing it entirely on your own might as well turn into an exercise in frustration.

[mrobert]

Z80 games were the real thing :)

[mattjb15]

Personally when it comes to online MMORPG's i prefer a text based - strategy game like zelderex or ogame, i like the gameplay and the community on these games and others of there type, though i agree its nice to have a world around you like WoW or Guild Wars if its not upto a good standard it becomes annoying and depressing shown in runescape where a two year old could have done a better graphical job, I think it depends what sort of games your into but now with things like the xbox 360 you can play quality games with your friends and they can be around the world, a feature that made internet games so popular, though generally i'd like to play a game where you find a freindly community and if that comes without the graphics it doesn't bother me because if i wouldn't to look at something nice i have a ps2 and xbox for that

[Nae'blis]

MU*s tend to be the last great refuge for text-based games anyway, so this may be just a case of 'accepting the norm'. Doesn't mean the medium isn't up to the job, though something may or may not be better.

[Grellin]

The fact that there is still a very strong following for MUD's says that while you will not appeal to all game players, you will appeal to a small dedicated group. There is always someone for any genre.

[Nae'blis]

Very true. I agree completely.

[Opha]

In this day and age it seems that the majority of the "Gamer" imagination is dead. But iam sure that the hardcore MUDers would love another intuitive MUD to play. But it would need to bring something new to the large world of MUD'dn. I for one would like to see a bridged version that trys to mix both text based gaming and Graphic game. Or at the least, the best things from the MUD type game and bring it to the graphical world...

[Nae'blis]

Opha said:

In this day and age it seems that the majority of the "Gamer" imagination is dead.

What do you mean by this?

Surely the fact that you're a gamer and you're on a design section of a development forum would indicate that you have imagination and ideas for games you'd like made. Hence "Gamer Imagination" :sneaky:

[xiangyang]

i llike text-based games '---------chinese
http://www.playerturbo.com

[B3b0]

Its all important. No one aspect of a game whether its music, graphics or interface. Its all important and it all adds up to the gameplay. Now although they are all equal in importance does not mean they are required for a good gameplay experience.
Personally, going back up to the first post. I think you should maybe through in some pictures. So you read "you enter the town" and then it will show a little picture of a town. Simple and it gives the player something to go with their imagination.
If you ever played Dungeons and Dragons, jus the paper pen one, in the rule books they have a little picture that goes with what your reading about.
I guess what I am trying to say is that its always good to have somekind of visual aid.

[zyriax_darkhelm]

Quote

I guess what I am trying to say is that its always good to have somekind of visual aid.

Yeah, better than staring at a huge hunk of text. Perhaps text-based RPGs would be more popular if people were patient and took the time to settle down and read them.

[azoundria]

I like anything not 3D. This includes iso, 2D, and text. Not sure why I dont like 3D, probably because it appears realistic but it's still not close enough. If I had a VR machine that'd be cool but on the screen its hard to control where you're looking.

[sirfalas]

Both mediums have pros and cons. I have not really gotten into any MUD games but perhaps it is the fault of the game type itself? I mean MUD itself stands for multi-user dungeons and it mostly focuses on elves, barbarians and so on. But I love books (a recently acquired habit) and there are a lot of things in books that I believe games could pick up.

For example, I just completed reading the first book from Gerald Durrell (wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia....Gerald_Durrell). He is an animal lover and was one since he was very young. The book "My Family and Other animals" [Amazon Link: http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0142004413] is about his childhood stories when he was living in Corfu, a Greek island. The way he writes his stories, the words he use to describe the scenery makes you imagine about the surroundings, the gardens he was in, the animals he caught, the various characters he met in life in great detail.

You know how people love to say how the environment in the Viva Pinata game for the X360 is very rich? If you read this book (and you will enjoy it), you will imagine a world richer than viva pinata. I don't believe that text cannot make you imagine a world richer than worlds that are shown graphically.

While text cannot show you graphics, therein lies its power, to make you imagine. With graphics, you are limited to what you see on the screen. Different mediums have different applications. I still believe a text only game can be very rich in detail by making you imagine but it would be tough to sell your game or get people to play it simply because there are too many games out there right now and most people would rather play one with graphics than one without.

[Ellis1138]

The strength of a MUD/MUSH (text-based online multiplayer RPG) vs an MMORPG is that, in a MU*, you can do more than you can in an MMO, simply because the 3D graphic programmer cannot (and probably should not) create programming for each and every possible thing a character might do. Now, on Second Life (3D graphics), the players script things, so they can do more, but you're still limited to what you see on screen.

Reading a book (text) has been shown in several studies to keep a brain active, to inspire mental acuity. Television has been the opposite. In fact, it's such a passive entertainment that you burn more calories staring at a wall than you do watching TV.

I'm not sure why some people feel that text games can't exist in a world with 3D graphic games. Sometimes, you want to read. Sometimes, you want to watch TV. Sometimes, you want to play a board game, other times, a computer game. No matter what medium it's made in, a well-designed game will be fun.

[sirfalas]

Yep. Games in different mediums will work as long as they are well-designed. But crossing of these mediums would be a great thing. Why should it be 'Text vs. Graphics' ? Why not 'Text and Graphics' ? Graphics help us see but text can make us imagine.

For example, the following is an excerpt from the book "My family and other animals". The author is describing his journey by boat to a particular island that his family visits occasionally.

"The curve of pearl-white sand was backed up by the great lily-covered dune behind, a thousand white flowers in the sunshine like a multitude of ivory horns lifting their lips to the sky and producing, instead of music, a rich, heavy scent that was the distilled essence of summer, a warm sweetness that made you breathe deeply time and again in an effort to retain it within you. The engine died away in a final splutter that echoed briefly among the rocks, and then the two boats whispered their way shorewards, and the scent of the lilies came out over the water to greet us."

I bet that made you imagine the island, the scent of the lilies and so on. In my opinion, oblivion tried to do this. So does the star wars. In star wars: KOTOR (the first one), when you were on dantooine and you went into the 'tomb' that revan went to, you discover this droid that mentions that it was built by the elders or something who lived a long time before the currently generation of jedi/sith. This makes you imagine what they were like. The origin s of the droid HK-47 is also a unknown one. It makes you imagine. In fact the whole game kept making you think who you really were.

Similarly in oblivion, you see large ruined cities with a different type of architecture. You keep hearing stories on how these were created by a one mighty race known as the ayeleids. It makes you imagine what they were, why they disappeared and so on.

Another cool thing of leaving all these open ends for players to imagine means that if you run out of ideas for your current game, you could always make one where you expand on those untold parts of the game.

I guess in a very story-oriented game, you need writers who do a good job and designers who are open to new ideas and you could even pull-off a text only game. After all, the lonewolf series (wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....%28gamebooks%29) was essentially a text-game on a printed book and it has done well.

[airikita]

Opha said:

In this day and age it seems that the majority of the "Gamer" imagination is dead. But iam sure that the hardcore MUDers would love another intuitive MUD to play. But it would need to bring something new to the large world of MUD'dn. I for one would like to see a bridged version that trys to mix both text based gaming and Graphic game. Or at the least, the best things from the MUD type game and bring it to the graphical world...

Guh, "Gamer imagination is dead".. True, it kills me to hear it, which is my motivation. People hear my ideas, and go "omg, you have so many ideas, why not make them?" the truth is, I'm stuck on marketing, and I hit a depression ditch from October up to 2 weeks ago.

Since I'm here, and hearing more of the truth, I'm getting back on my toes, but I've still lost my motivation like I did when I created 20 fully animated sprites over a bootleg idea that still needs contruction..

I need to find easier ways to make sprites, and those 20 sprites looked like I was going to finish it too..


My main game idea floating in my head is an artist rendering of a B&W sprite I saw, but still forms my animation ideas, so it's more of an interpretation..

When the game designers say "you can't do it on your own", it's almost like telling someone they can't do anything on their own.