23 replies to this topic

[Almos]

Browsing game development-related sites I found that MMORPGs suddenly became a hot topic. Why's that? I confess I never got to play any, mostly due to hardware limitations and financial issues. On the other hand, every game development forum has at least one post, usually written by newbie with no - or very limited - knowledge about programming, asking "if this engine will allow me to write my own MMORPG". Call me old-fashioned, not up-to-date and the like, but I simply don't get it.

[Dias]

Almos said:

Browsing game development-related sites I found that MMORPGs suddenly became a hot topic.

Nah its been like that for years.
Well... they are addicting :)

[kariem2k]

Hi
I always hated regular offline Rpgs but when i was convinced by a friend to try first world of warcraft and then lineage 2 i have became addicted to these games(but finally i was able to recover myself from this addiction to pay more attention to programming :) ) .
So why this type of games is very profitable? because they not dependant of selling copy by copy to the customers but they depends on renting-like relationship between the customers and the company so they are confident about that the game will be very profitable for many years to come.
BUT on the other side they are very money and time consuming (because of the servers costs and the very large scale maintenance) and any new comer to the game programming world from the mmorpg playing don't calculate this type of costs and problems so they think that it would be easy to make there own mmorpg and become the most powerful GMs in there own game :),but in actual world this does not happen because mmorpgs are IMO the most time,money,effort,programming and art making demanding game type.

[squint]

I think it's because making a game yourself means your are creating your own world, in which you effectively play God, and lots of people have this dream of having thousands of people wandering around their world and gawping at them in awe :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

I will admit to a similar flaw in my own aims, in that I would probably have finished half a dozen single player games by now, but if it's not multiplayer the idea of having made it doesn't really appeal - I want to see other people play my game. MMORPG is just the most multiplayer and the most personal manifestation of this (uh, and no, I'm not trying to make one...)

It is amusing, really, the way reality gradually drags you down from "I am God! Worship me!" through "I know C++ now and am going to make an FPS" to "Could someone help me debug my pong clone please?"

It's working your way back up again that truly brings the rewards.

[Almos]

And I thought that my plans to develop a modest action-adventure were ambitious... :blush:

[Methulah]

They probably are. These plans aren't so much ambitious as unrealistic. Impossible would probably be a word that could be used fairly easily. It is common to have people asking "can they make an MMORPG for free" and the like. It is one of those questions that is answered by asking.

People need to learn to either get the right tools and the right scale, or to work their way up.

[Josh1billion]

Dias said:

Nah its been like that for years.
Well... they are addicting :)

Indeed.. I think that's the main reason.

MMORPG's are cash cows. Sony Online Entertainment (creators of Everquest and Everquest II) must have really been enjoying a life of luxury until Blizzard strolled into town with World of Warcraft.

[azoundria]

For me what attracts me to MMORPGs is that I am interacting with real people. It gives me a feeling of purpose more than I would get playin an offline game. Also that you cannot cheat because everything is stored on a server elsewhere. With offline games you can just edit the files on your computer and get 1000000000 dollars in them. I can also make a meet friends on MMORPGs.

MMORPGS are attractive for developers because they can charge monthly instead of just one fee for the game, it's very difficult to distribute it illegally, and they can control/track the player more. You can count players easily, and know the popularity of your game. You can change things without sending a new copy to everyone. Its a whole lot easier.

MMORPGs are the future of games.

[cypher543]

I don't mind playing MMORPGs... but I have to admit... I get really sick of seeing people continue to ask about making their own. Sure, at least 2 in 10 could actually do it. But the other 8 people just have no idea what they are talking about. MMORPGs require tons of planning (even more than a normal game, imo). And if you are really serious about making one, take the time to plan it out and learn a good language instead of constantly posting "What do I need" or "How do I get started" topics.

[NeZbiE]

I think a more appropriate ratio would be 1/100, and it's safe to say that pretty much everyone has delusions of grandeur when starting out, especially when the possibilities start opening up.

The only thing that attracts me to MMORPGs is the interaction, as azoundria points out. However, I've become disillusioned with current ones, since most end up being plain equipment/level/fedex grinds. When I realized that getting the latest shining piece of equipment or gaining an extra level really wasn't all that thrilling as a gaming experience, playing lost most of its luster. What the hell was I thinking? There's so much more I could have done in that time, in the entertainment and productivity departments.
Anyways, for the gaming experience, nothing beats actually being with friends for a console/lan hoedown. Well, multiplayer late-night adrenaline pumped coding sessions are pretty nice too! :-)

[Almos]

All right, thanks to all of you for your kind responses. As I read them I got idea for a smashing MMORPG. It goes as follows:

Instead of fantasy world, or the outer space, the setting for this MMORPG would be the game development forum. There would be two cathegories of players: regulars, referred to as Regs, and newbies (N00bs). These two groups are in constant conflict: N00bs are tormenting the Regs with their insanely ridiculous questions, thereby raising each Regs Jaded with Newbies meter (JwNM). Once JwNM of a particular Reg reaches certain liminal value, he drops off the forum. Of course, while N00bs are trying to get rid of Regs, the latter try to resist and remain on the forum.

It's obvious that creating such a decent game demands considerable amount of work, manpower, and, last not least, funds. To be frank, I'm not that good in computer programming, so I need someone to do my bidding and be obedient to my every whim. A group of such people would form the core of development team: abused and underpayed, they would serve me out of their adoration for my genius as a game designer. I'd also need some people whose slave labor would help to fund the project. As to technical details: the game would be in full 3d, would employ our own 3d engine (of course its quality can't be lower than that of the one used in the latest "Far Cry"), beautiful orchestral music, absolutely stunning AI, excellent physics engine (it must be, of course, better than anything done before), and what not. Before you start to enthusiastically send applications, consider that we only admit the best professional programmers. Thank you in advance.

[Dias]

Almos said:

Before you start to enthusiastically send applications, consider that we only admit the best professional programmers. Thank you in advance.

I dont want to brag or anything, but i sure know my way around in notepad and html scripting. ;)

[NeZbiE]

Can I Be On The Lighting Team????!?!?? :-)

[azoundria]

I know for me creating my own MMORPG is something I do because I want a certain MMORPG built. Im tired or MMORPGs that ignore player input and don't let people help with them. My MMORPG will allow anyone who is interested to build additions onto it and make suggestions, provided the rules are followed.

I get so annoyed when you put forward the time to write out want you want and explain why, and it probably isnt even read because your not paying for the game or very important to it. If I get too much input Ill look into getting people who can act as secretaries and keep track of what people want.

I think games should not revolve around real money, with players paying to play or buy the game. Money provokes greed, and people who are just doing something to get paid for it, will do the minimum they have to in order to get paid. Whereas people who are doing it to volunteer are nicer people, and they will not stop at a certain point waiting for more money. They are the people who will still be there when the game runs into financial problems.

[monjardin]

Programmers have to eat too.

[CrashTheuniversE]

Well guys, video games are not only a form of art.. They are of course, but since production nowadays costs, and expectations are growing together with hardware performance, they are costy. And to say, I think that money in modern society is a reward you shouldn't miss. A big artist deserves a lot of money in art galleries, so are singers and bands.. that's time to understand from the VG makers community that we deserve the same consideration, and very important teams will become mostly like very popular music bands for examples, or big football teams.. that's already the case for some big names like blizzard to name one..

About MMORPGs, yes, they are addictive, and they can generate revenues, and that's impressive how much demand there is for them. They all come from old MUDs for the ones drawing back memories from the 70s and 80s, where the number of players was already astonishing for that times and the overall amount of internet connections compared to nowadays ones.

The only real problem, is that while a MUD is "fairly" easy to be made, and a group of sunday amateurs could have set up rules for them, the story today is different. Same story for internet games.. no more garage teams.

I'm an engineer, and the first rule you learn is that there is no magic panacea to solve problems or get to excellent results. The world is complex, and engineering is the fine art of mastering complexity. Now I don't know how many chances there are a small group of teenagers or even people without a huge skill, and know-how baggage could handle even an hobbist MMORPG production. That is, I've seen many around, and tested them... but I don't know how long I could bear walking around pressing 100000 times the same button to see a couple of numbers just rise.

There are so many issues bound to design, programming (both 3D, world interaction, economy, and so on) that sometimes that could be difficult even for an experienced team that is approaching this kind of production for the first time.. let's figure out a small newborn team.

Moreover I believe that even in the eventuality a pandora's box could exist to make MMORPGs that would only drive blind most amateurs out there, since that's obvious that to make something worth playing it for more than 1 hour, would require anyway design , and art material worth a whole soccer team of designers and gfx artists.

I really think there is no chance people will calm down with making their own project, but ppl should take in account there must be a reason why to make a game some big software houses spend millions of dollars exploiting the talent of hundreds of engineers and top edge artists....

Lot of words for my first post sorry later guys !

[Almos]

BTW, are you the same CrashTheUniverse I met on Wintermute Engine chat? I went there by the nickname "Alek" (my first name). :)

monjardin: It had been scientifically proved that programmers run on electricity. It takes about half an hour to fully regarge one unit.

[Prozac]

One thing that I hate about MMORPGs is that they are all basically the same:
Make a character and get ridiculed by level 60's
Grind some
Go get some "magical items"
Grind some more
Obtain level 60
Grind some more
Starve yourself to death
Finally quit the game if your still breathing.

Like %95 of MMORPGs focus on fantasy in the medievil time era which is
annoying, don't people have ANY ORIGINALITY???

I played Planetside for awhile because it felt different from most MMORPGs
but like with all MMORPGs they either eventually get boring or you run out
of cash to supply your digital habit.

[jjd]

The MMOG that I enjoyed the most was a free (it was free at the time, I don't know if it is now) game called 'star sonanta.' Unlike a lot of the *big* MMOGs commerically available most of the content and politics were developed and created by the players themselves in a pretty natural way. I found that games like WoW are fun for a little while, but it is repetitive and if you start another characer it is likely that you'll have to do all the same quests again! How boring...

An integral part of a MMOGs long-term success comes from content and replay value. Games where the players cannot modify or direct their world are always going to suffer from a lack of novelty, and require enormous effort from the dev team to keep the players entertained. On the other hand, a MMOG that depends upon player contributions needs a strong base of player support.

My preference is for games where you (the player) has some control of the environment you are in.

[CrashTheuniversE]

Almos said:

BTW, are you the same CrashTheUniverse I met on Wintermute Engine chat? I went there by the nickname "Alek" (my first name).

Yes that's me ..ehehe .. I don't think there are so many CrashTheuniversE in this world.. we are only 6 bilions of people .. mmm .. chances are too low :cool2: