4 replies to this topic

[Esoteric]

and I guess I registered, too.

After a good long look around to see if it was..er..safe, I ducked into this here lounge!

Anyhow, Aloha, as we say in these parts. I am new here, but I am not very interested in how difficult a mmorpg/fps/rts/pbem is or isn't to make, my concerns are more fundamental.

I am glad to have found this forum about game development, and look forward to spending some time with your lovely and talented search engine to ..um...pick your collective brains. (that kinda sounds scary)
I also look forward to joining some discussions about game design and development.

I am only taking a stab at this introductional thingy because I am about to actually dive into an almost-a-topic, but thought that I would formally, and for the permanent record, establish this as a productive, efficient, and clearly over-done first post.

If you survived that twisted sentence, then anything else you read may or may not be Heisenberg.


So, I believe I have established exactly the first impression I was looking for, onto some tasty bits:

Although this may be a negative influence on my intro-story, I am old enough to have grown up with the gaming industry- well, yeah- I was born the same year that Atari was. I am not claiming any sort of insight into games, or Atari, due to this, merely commenting on exposure- I was thrilled and throughly entertained by early consoles (2600, for example) and absolutely mystified into bliss by the power of the mighty C64, c128, amiga, oh! wait- an Apple ][, in their somewhere. Yes, for decades now I have been exposed to year after grueling year of thrills, chills, and really large piles of used software. and, of course, dead game machines.

As it would appear that many of you have also done.

I think that a lot of the 'early age' game designers had an advantage over designers today- all they had to do was choose any whimsical direction in a huge new and thoroughly undiscovered market- and we, the consumers of games, were satisfied with anything almost. For awhile...

But now, as is evidenced from this board and many others like it, the game industry seems to have reached a point of maturity which allows even a simple game-addict like myself to dream of designing, developing and, Yea!, even 'publishing' (or at least tinkering around with the concept of 'publishing') a game. So, I go look around for a game engine/maker platform and discover a bunch of plethoras of options. And a massive community as well. It's amazing where the industry has gone, and I am really only looking at some fringe.

(bear with me on this a bit longer..)

Even in such a huge industry and community however, I am finding some fairly disturbing results from what I have read- 'There is nothing new under the sun.'

Those early age game designers apparently tapped out all the workable genres! FPS, RPG, RTS, TBS, etc... this is our 'stl' for games.

Everywhere you turn the standard mold has set- for the most part, games and games and games upon games are really only diversions on familiar themes, mainly extolling better technology to do the same stuff- some of you seem to feel the same way.

I am interested in discovering, and perhaps developing, new and intriguing games, and I think that the indie game developers are the ones who will be taking the industry into new game paradigms. I also believe that the community of gamers should step up and start setting the bar higher for games we play- both in technology and content. I love the content and game editors that have come out with a lot of games over the years- at least in concept, most of the actual software seems to have been an afterthought and clumsy to use- modding has always been a hobby of mine, since I discovered various ways to cheat at Bard's Tale with some simple hacking.

It seems that the mainstream game industry has also taken a turn from quality once again (if they ever really focused on it), a game I recently bought was shipped basically broken- and rather empty as well- and I, having already lived through so many bad and broken games as this fledging industry has developed, have had it with main stream game companies that consistently take advantage of the marketting power their money buys them to foist garbage on me and other gamers. You would think that they would be able to afford some actual decent content to go with all the hype and ads, yes?

In other words, I am turning my loyalty and interests (and game budget) over to the indie developers and community, in my own attempt at poetic vengeance- I will make a better 'action rpg' than that the last one I bought, by craft or diligence or guile!, or warp my little brains trying at least. But before I do, I really would like to discuss this theory of game fundamentals and concepts I have...

I am looking forward to checking out more indie games and sharing ideas with you all, and in possible collaborations. Or compilatorials, or whichamacallits. Yeah, those. Aloha.

[baldurk]

These days, the majority of people who buy and play games are your average joe - not a "gamer" - with his xbox or playstation. That means that he controls the market, because companies want to sell to him, not "gamers".

So the question then becomes, what does the average joe want? does he want good quality gameplay and a well-thought out plot? In some cases, maybe. In most cases I'd guess it's all about the cheap thrill - good graphics and adrenaline. In fact, most people want the same game over and over, in different guises. "World war 2 shooter", "racing game" or "football game". Now these two factors become pretty significant. Firstly, companies have to get the latest whizz-bang graphics to sell games. That means spending a lot of money developing games. It's a product of the technology that 10 years ago, an indie developer could get just about the same quality of graphics as proffessionals, in a reasonable timeframe. These days that's almost impossible.

This means that companies have to spend a lot of money on games to sell them. To them, it's an investment, and with investments you always go for the safe bet. That means the same old game over and over. New games are a risk, a chance that the company has to take and you'll find that most companies don't want to take that risk.

That being said, I don't think it's right to say that everything has already been thought of. Where was the precursor to Katamari Damacy? or Shadow of the Colossus? I haven't played either admittedly but neither is easily fitted into any three letter acronym (FPS, RPG, etc). Another example would be the sims. Sim games had been around, but simulating people was a new idea.

Personally, I don't have any real design talent. Sure, I have some ideas, but they're nothing special. I'm in this for the fun of creation and the technology, rather than any desire to really make a game (despite that being my stated goal). For those who wish to design games, don't think you're limited. In games it is truer than anywhere else including film - the sky really is the limit.

That was way too long. Bleh.

[TheNut]

I guess it goes with age. Just like how you were amazed with Amiga and Commodore and how I was amazed with Nintendo, people nowadays are just amazed at company XYZ. To them, it’s like discovering a whole new world that they need to explore, but that being something we already did. A “been there, done that” scenario.

In any case, welcome aboard. In time, I hope you dissect enough information to whip up something really neato.

[Esoteric]

Thanks for the input. I am, in many respects, still an average joe- I am just tired of buying lemons or zombie monkeys. That's why I am really interested in game development platforms- the ability to, for instance, attempt to make a 'empire-builder-TBS' that can actually be played, rather than treated as a mega-spreadsheet program with robots- or an action rpg with some highly developed story features, etc.
I have been 'planning' rpgs since graph paper showed up in my Mom's grocery bags- a few years prior to Bard's Tale1. I think I have always wanted to make games, and the computer is simply another media to do it with that it turns out I get along with easier. I even have a few board game ideas shoved in some box somewhere. Game design and Game theory is a big interest of mine, whereas development is a newly evolving hobby.
So, it seems I may be in the right place to have some extreme fun.
Aloha!

[DracheHexe]

Welcome Esoteric. That is quite a brave and bold statement and it is always good to see people who have the attitude that we still have yet to see the best of what gaming has to offer.

I don't necessarily think that gaming genres have been tapped out. It's true that the margin for new game design innovations is smaller than it was 12 years ago, but there is still potential for growth. I also believe that there is potential for the current genres to still thrive.

I think the biggest problem with the market is lack of fully realised products. It's one thing to have a great idea for a game. It's another thing to get that idea to store shelves. It's a totally different thing to get that idea to store shelves fully realised. There are so many games that have flopped not because they are bad ideas, they are just poor implementations of great ideas. Even then, some really great games (I would even say most great games) aren't fully realised, but they are still great because they are more realised, more complete and better executed.

A great game idea that becomes compromised is doomed to be average at best. Of course that's what the mainstream gaming market has become, compromise. Budgets, timetables, platform compatibility, target audience, whatever. They all affect the quality of the finished game as much as the talent of the staff making the game. Most games never get the chance to realise their full potential.

That's where the "indie" people come in. Whether it's to publish a game for profit or just to have fun there is a vision that isn't as tied to compromise as the big game companies. To me, the vision of the game is the most important element. As long as you can avoid compromising that vision when developing your game, then it will be a great game.

But, I think the most important aspect of being an indie developer is to make what you want to make and to get what you want out of making that game. As an indie you shouldn't be worrying about defining a new genre or setting a new standard. You should just worry about realising your vision to it's fullest potential. If every game company could avoid compromises we'd have lots more great games out there instead of only a handful of great games for each genre.