26 replies to this topic

[Kotero]

Hello and I am a Game Programmer and I am planning on making a MMORPG that will be 3D and f2p. I need really strong, well thought ideas to put into my MMORPG. If you want to help or have an idea for this game then send your email and your idea to Kotareen@cs.com. I would be eternally grateful for any ideas or help you give to me. I will write all of you back personally.:yes:

[Ellis1138]

Here's my idea for your MMORPG. I call it "Potluck, the MMO!"

All you have to do is get worldforge (which should be easy for you, since you are a Game Programmer). Then, you advertise that, hey, you have an MMO called Potluck. Everyone who subscribes must bring something of their own idea to make. Within a year, you will have a great MMO, brimming with wonderful ideas. This also saves you the trouble of the design document.

[eddie]

If you want, there's a lot of threads on this already in the forum. I suggest you read them and harvest some ideas there. Maybe bring them up in a fresh light in this thread for people to comment on.

Good luck.

[pater]

@Kotero: Be aware that the question you asked has been posed so many times before, that nobody will take you serious unless you prove that you *really* have the abilities and passion to complete your project. We've never seen a MMORPG finished or even bejond the planning phase of all the thousand guys that tried to start one. I'm not trying to discurage you, but you should really try to get a clue of what making a game (esp. an MMORPG) means. Read old posts about this topic on gaming forums, and you'll know what I mean.

[Ellis1138]

I'm pretty sure it was obvious from my previous post that I was semi-joking, although Kotero does sound like the "i want to mak a gam" bunch, so slapping together something on Worldforge would be his only chance at making an MMORPG when he has no actual ideas or design.

However, I want to stress to Kotero and to anyone who sends him their "great idea for a game its gonna make doom look small" that before you do anything, you're going to want a lawyer. Kotero's going to want a non-compete agreement. The idea person is going to want an agreement stating what is and isn't theirs in an IP sense (Intellectual Property).

Example: Supposing I had this phenomenal idea for Potluck MMO, and I stupidly sent it to everyone, including Kotero, and posted it like I just did? Kotero thinks "Wow! Yeah, I'll use this." Meanwhile, 5 other people on the forums thought the same thing, and are going to use the idea. Who owns it? Whose idea was it? How is the person who made it going to make any money or get credit for it?

Now, mind you, this is not as overwhelming a thing as the whole design document and the actual making of an MMO. But unless you really feel like living dangerously, before you even begin making the MMO, consult a lawyer. Register and incorporate your company and have the lawyer draw up NDA, non-compete, employment and subcontractor agreements. It shouldn't cost more than $5000, if you have a lawyer who specializes in game/entertainment/IP law do it.

[pater]

Did you really do this? Did it really help or was the money actually wasted?

[Mattias Gustavsson]

The value is not in the idea. The value is in the implementation.

[Ellis1138]

pater said:

Did you really do this? Did it really help or was the money actually wasted?

I'm assuming you mean me, and that you mean did I consult a lawyer, rather than did I make Potluck MMO (I didn't. Second Life did.) I do have a lawyer, plan to make a commercial MMORPG, and I did spend the $4500 and it is not money wasted. There are so many pitfalls and concerns that can be overlooked if you don't have someone who knows the ins and outs of law, both federal and local. I'm not sure how it works in Switzerland, but I'm in the United States, where you can get into major troubles by skipping the lawful part.

Now, if one feels that they have read everything about incorporating (C, S or LLC corp) or that one decides to be personally liable for everything and make it a sole proprietorship, more power to ya. I don't fix my own cars, nor do I do surgery on myself. I will build my own computer. But law is so complex that I like having someone deal with it.

Why?

Let's say you decide to make the usual fantasy MMO, with dragons, orcs, trolls, etc. You somehow manage to gather together the money and time to make it. You charge a fee and people pay you, and you start making more than $600 a year. Let's say you have 1000 people and they all pay you $10 a month, with $1 per player needing to go to the bandwidth and we decide you have absolutely no customer service or overhead. Do you know how to declare the gross $108,000 a year? Let's say you do, and you're happily managing this game.

Until...

You're popular enough that EA or SOE or Blizzard takes a gander at your game and notices that you've ripped off an idea or trademark from them. They sue. Now you are 100% personally liable for it, even if you win the case after the 1-2 years it takes.

Or, let's say you got a volunteer artist who did a great job and you have the most wonderful-looking dragons. Then you find out the artist was under contract with another game company who's using those dragons, and you now owe them royalties.

There's a ton more cases that can come up. It's just better, IMO, to hire a lawyer from the outset. To be honest, if the idea of spending $4500 on a laywer (to help you pick your type of corporation, register it, register the trademark, check for anything that could conflict with your business, draw up various agreements and by-laws for the company and to create your stock certificates) is something daunting to you, then don't make a commercial MMORPG.

[eddie]

Hrmm, interesting.

I incorporated last summer (granted, in Canada, and a provincial company) for just over 450$. It got me everything you mention (minus a trademark, I think).

That said, I don't know what else you got that you didn't mention, but my point is that I'll definitely get a lawyer involved eventually, but not until I end up hiring people, or releasing product.

At some point, you have to cover your ass legally.

[Ellis1138]

I did the whole kit and kaboodle, plus have a retainer. The incorporating was a little more than yours, but each state in the US has different things you have to do, which is why a lot of companies are "based" in Delaware, despite not having a physical office there. My lawyer is also NYC-based, so that adds some, but he specifically knows online games. I felt uncomfortable with a lawyer who would stare blankly at me and say "MMORPG?" like it was some alien concept. :)

[wazoo]

Back OT...@Kotero.

I've got an excellent idea called "The King of the Friendship Bracelets"

Basically it's a near fantasy world where hundreds of years ago the people of the Upper Dirt realm got together and tried to decide how to get along. They came up with the idea of Friendship Bracelets with special powers. During these meetings, they banned a mysterious Dark Lord named Sow-Rohn who ended up with the ability to make his own Friendship Bracelet...

The only thing is, Sow-Rohn's Friendship Bracelet was able to draw power from the other Bracelets throughout the land and slowly he drew from this power to generate an army of Ohr-ks.

The players of this world must choose which Friendship Bracelet faction they belong to, then eventually (in the EndGame) meet up with everyone else on the server to join in a war against Sow-Rohn and his evil forces!

Let the battle for Upper Dirt begin!

[monjardin]

I think some Hah-Bets are in order as well!

[wazoo]

monjardin said:

I think some Hah-Bets are in order as well!

Exactly. Remember, it's not "McDonald's" it's "MacDowell's". They have the "Golden Arches", while I've got the "Golden Arks".

[pater]

Ellis1138 said:

I'm assuming you mean me, and that you mean did I consult a lawyer, rather than did I make Potluck MMO (I didn't. Second Life did.) I do have a lawyer, plan to make a commercial MMORPG, and I did spend the $4500 and it is not money wasted. There are so many pitfalls and concerns that can be overlooked if you don't have someone who knows the ins and outs of law, both federal and local. I'm not sure how it works in Switzerland, but I'm in the United States, where you can get into major troubles by skipping the lawful part.

Oh, thanks. This was really the answer I exspected. I think I understand the problem you're talking of. For a commercial full-time project, I absolutelly agree that you'll need a lawyer to handle that kind of stuff. The problem is, that a lot of hobbyist programmers with smaller projects (Ok, an MMORPG is newer a small project :blush: ) just can't afford the money or also the time needed to investigate in all those legal affairs.
Let's just hope nobody get's the idea to sue all of those freeware or shareware coders for *something* they did... :sad:

[wazoo]

pater said:

Let's just hope nobody get's the idea to sue all of those freeware or shareware coders for *something* they did... :sad:

You mean like Hasbro did a few years ago trying to shut down every guy making an Asteroids clone game??

http://www.gamedev.n.../article954.asp

[Ellis1138]

You do have to watch out, even if you're freeware/shareware, although the odds are less likely that a company would waste the resources for it. Don't underestimate it, though. Even if you're not making money at something, if a company determines you're infringing, you could wind up in some legal issues.

For Pater (and the hobbyists), make sure you don't infringe, and you should be fine. The prices for everything are coming down, and I think Second Life and http://www.multiverse.net/ are paving the way for the evolution of MMOGs going a similar directions as MUDs/MUXs/MUSH/MOO went. In the beginning, it was a very complicated bunch of programming, so only the few who could do that plus who had access to a capable machine were running them. Years later, source codes were available to those who could simply compile and then softcode, so MU*s spread. Today, you can grab a "Sandbox", with the code all ready made, and then, instead of having it run on a University computer, you pay a MU* hoster.. which has resulted in a ton of smaller, but more niched, MU*s.

So, MMOs started huge and expensive. But this past year or so, the advent of GPL and LGPL stuff like Ogre, Panda3D, Blender, and more are shaving costs, and there's some places that have pre-loaded MMOs on servers and you can pay a monthly fee and/or royalties to, thus cutting out the expense of servers and network specialists. The time of the small, niche MMOs and the hobbyist MMOs are coming soon. :)

[lenard]

What I want in an MMORPG is that it must have an anti-hacking system. No level grinding. good item drops.Fast level ups. No hidden BS, No lag. Many servers to control Lags. And easy commands.. Do I ask too much?

[Memyself]

I always wanted to play an mmo that would be the next thing, and i asume it can be very difficult to program. Imagine something like lost vikings, in wich every character has an ability that can interact with other players ability and the envirorment to solve situations and puzzles, but instead of switching char. it woul be real time interaction as every char. would be someone in the online multiplayer envirorment. I don't know if it has been done, probably it has, but haven't found it yet. All i see in mmorpg's is a world in wich you can talk to people and be there in the same world, but the quest is still an individual progress for each player. I think this idea would force people get together in their abilities in order to solve situations and go forward in the game.

[Jare]

lenard said:

No level grinding. good item drops.Fast level ups. [...] Do I ask too much?

Yes. Fast levelups means you reach the level cap quickly, at which point you need an interesting "endgame". Without an endgame, it's hard to build and keep in-game relationships among players with different play schedules. If good items are easy to attain and you don't want to grind, your players will "win" then game very quickly. That's not good for MMOs in the traditional sense. WoW and Guild Wars do achieve a number of things you describe, but debating why it works for them would be long winded. :)

MMO design is about a LOT more than just what players want. Which explains why they are so hard to get right.

[gillvane]

I see the OP hasn't been back. Either you guys scared him off, or he lost interest already.

In any case, I suggest a Ninja vs. Pirates MMORPG. It's never been done you know, and the PvP possibilities are endless. You should definitely include options for sea battles (where the Pirates will obviously have an advantage).

Unfortunately, when it somes to smack talk, the Ninja have a built in advantage. They can say things like

"My Dragon Style Kung Fu is stronger than your Flying Mantis Kung Fu. You will not prevail against me! Hmmmm!"

While Pirates will mostly say "Arrrrrrr!" and "Yarrrr! Matey!".

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com

In other news, an innocent Ninja gets arrested:

http://www.thepin.info/?p=105

Maybe you don't like the Pirates vs Ninja idea, although I think it is strong and well thought out. In that case you can make another PvP MMORPG. I call this one Christians vs Muslims. It is set during the crusades. Basically, you choose one of two sides, either Christian or Muslim, then you go beat the hell out of the other side. However, one requirement of this game is that you disparage your enemies god, since they are of course wrong, and you are right. It should also be very bloody, with options to impale your enemy, or disembowel them.
This game is gaurenteed to get lots of great press in all the gaming magazines, and syndicated news columns.
You might have some problems balancing the sides so you dont' get to many Zergs, but I'm sure you can work that out.