41 replies to this topic

[ProgramWizard]

I'm not really sure if this belongs here, but it is related to programming slightly.
Anyway, I'm considering moving from Windows XP to Linux, and I had a few questions:

Which distribution would be best for me? I spend most of my time browsing the web and programming in C++.

How many applications and pieces of software are available for it? I.E., will I miss Microsoft Office?

Are ther any other things I should think/worry about?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[baldurk]

I'm not exactly sure where this fits either, but pending any specific programming discussion I'm going to put this in the lounge for now.

[eddie]

If you've never used LInux before, I recommend you try a Knoppix install of something. I've never used it, but I understand it's easy to configure and set up.

I also understand RedHat Fedora Core 3 is a good thing to cut your teeth on: it's what I learned on back in the day, although I quickly jumped ship (too many package inconsistencies and problems: it might be better now however).

I can't speak as to what you'll miss/enjoy, as I don't know you. I personally never find it lacking, but I still use Windows for what I need Windows for, and Linux for, well: everything else. :)

There is a lot of differences in programming C++ on windows vs. on linux. Data types change (wchar_t is 4 bytes on Linux, 2 bytes on Windows), functions are different (strcasecmp vs stricmp), and the compilers are different and have different warnings and the like.

I wouldn't recommend changing just for the sake of changing, if you're hoping to accomplish a project: it will disrupt your flow and chew up time to learn.

That said, learning for the sake of learning is good, but you might want to put other things on hold in the meantime, while you learn.

( Sorry if this is a rushed post: I'm just about to head out the door. )

[ProgramWizard]

The main reson I'm considering Linux is becauseof open-source software. It just seems... well... cool. There's a big community around it. You never see sites like spreadfirefox.com talking about a Windows product. I'll still probably keep Windows up ona seperate machine, but I just wanted to find out a little starting info.

[Ed Mack]

Ubuntu is a very pleasant and well put together distribution (and has live cds, so you can try without installing it).

I quite like AbiWord. OpenOffice does the job, but is not always nice to use. Internet surfing -> Use the fox. C++ -> Use an IDE (graphical or text based) or use gedit and a few terminals & makefiles. Up to you :)

[TheNut]

"You never see sites like spreadfirefox.com talking about a Windows product"
Microsoft.com :lol:

Personally I use Linux only for serving since it's very lightweight. When it comes to desktop environments however, Windows is the fastest and cleanest, just so you know. You don’t need to use Linux just to make open source software. However if you're interested in using it as a general development/desktop environment, I would recommend you start off with one of the easier distros such as Redhat or Mandrake. You should be careful with these distros since a full install will turn your PC into molasses. Try and read through all the stuff that gets put on your system and keep only what you need. Gnome and KDE are the top dogs for desktop environments within Linux. I recommend Gnome since its lighter weight. KDE can suck your hardware dry and still have room for leftovers, but you still need to be careful with Gnome.

“will I miss Microsoft Office”
Yes, you will =) But not all is lost. One of the best replacements is Open Office by Sun Microsystems (http://www.openoffice.org/). It’s not as good as the MS Office suite, but it’s better than nothing. You also have Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/), which is like the Photoshop for Linux. And then there’s Dev C++ (http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html), which is your replacement for Visual Studio.

I also recommend you bookmark www.freshmeat.net. It’s like the Google for Linux apps. Keep in mind when you move from Windows to Linux you're sacrificing quite a bit in user-friendly environment for "open source". Ask yourself if it's really worth it. Again, you don't need Linux to participate in open source development.

Good luck =)

[Methulah]

Allright. There are a few issues with missing office. Perhaps the most faithful replica is StarOffice, it is cheaper than Office, and in some ways, better. Mono is a good replacement to Visual Studio if you are at all into coding using the .NET platform. Me, I don't recommend Linux for desktop use. I use Windows on my desktop and Debian 3.1 on my server. I know some people who use Linux as a desktop, but I never found iot worthwhile, as the great majority of the programs I use on a day to day basis are not usable on Linux.

[roxtar]

Methulah said:

Mono is a good replacement to Visual Studio

I had used Mono on Linux a few months back, and it had a lot of catching up to do with Visual Studio .NET. That said, it does help in the porting your .NET programs on to Linux.

[eddie]

Personally I'm a fan of KDevelop, or even DDD, on linux, if you're to use something like X.

That said I'm mostly a console hacker, and do my work in vim & cgdb/gdb.

To each their own.

[EvilSmile]

I've used Redhat earlier, followed by Fedora and now I'm using Debian. So far Debain is the best experience I've had. If you have a friend who can lend a helping hand when you need a bit of help, then I'd recommend Debian. If you are on your own, try Ubuntu or Knoppix.

[eddie]

Agreed.

I'm a Gentoo user myself.

[zavie]

ProgramWizard said:

I'm not really sure if this belongs here, but it is related to programming slightly.
Anyway, I'm considering moving from Windows XP to Linux, and I had a few questions:

<flame>
Good choice!
</flame>

Quote

Which distribution would be best for me? I spend most of my time browsing the web and programming in C++.

Any distribution will allow you to do this. I'd recommend you a Debian based one because of Debian's quality, stability, huge pool, and apt-tool. If you're a beginner, I would recommend you an Ubuntu.

Quote

How many applications and pieces of software are available for it? I.E., will I miss Microsoft Office?

Debian pool, again, is huge. I can do all I want with it. The only limitation I found til now is the fact that MPlayer (an ultimate media player, able to read *any* video) hasn't been included, for licence reasons. I compiled it though. ;-)

Indeed you won't have MS Office, but Open Office works very well. For text I don't use it though: LaTeX gives result no way comparable to {MS/Open} Office. ;-)

About dev, you will find everything you might need. Compilers for any language, environnements like KDevelop, etc.

About games, you won't be able to play your Windows games unless you install correctly a WineX. There are hundreds of games for Linux, but those are rather tiny arcade games.

Quote

Are ther any other things I should think/worry about?

Yes: you'll have to unlearn all you learn. May the Force be with you!

[zavie]

eddie said:

There is a lot of differences in programming C++ on windows vs. on linux. Data types change (wchar_t is 4 bytes on Linux, 2 bytes on Windows), functions are different (strcasecmp vs stricmp), and the compilers are different and have different warnings and the like.

I don't agree with this. C++ is a standard, and if you follow it, there is no surprise.

Types depends on both the OS and the processor. So making assumptions on sizes is an error. Functions of the standard library, as the name tells, are standard. But if you follow Microsoft in its willing to turn everything to MS taste, of course using something else than MS will look strange. If you follow the standard, then there is no problem.

I usually develop under Linux, using g++, and then port to Windows: it results straight forward.

One thing that developping under Linux teaches is to take care of standards and portability.

At last, about compilers output, I think this is irrelevant. Messages also change from a compiler version to another and from a language to another. The only important thing is how clear and accurate the message is.

[eddie]

zavie said:

I don't agree with this. C++ is a standard, and if you follow it, there is no surprise.

I'm sorry you disagree with this, but rereading my post, I would only amend my comment about "there is a lot of differences" to "there are a few differences, that might catch you". That's really the spirit of my post anyhow.

zavie said:

Types depends on both the OS and the processor. So making assumptions on sizes is an error.

Precisely. Hence why I posted this as a concern that someone might have when moving to another OS.

zavie said:

Functions of the standard library, as the name tells, are standard. But if you follow Microsoft in its willing to turn everything to MS taste, of course using something else than MS will look strange. If you follow the standard, then there is no problem.

I was using that as an example that certain people may run into. Perhaps I could have mentioned OS specific functions that won't map as well, but I figured stricmp might be a good example.

That said, there are times when the standard library doesn't cover what you need. One of those cases is stricmp/strcasecmp. The sensible thing to do is to obviously wrap these so they look OS independent from your code, but one still needs to know that these differences exist and what they are.

zavie said:

At last, about compilers output, I think this is irrelevant. Messages also change from a compiler version to another and from a language to another. The only important thing is how clear and accurate the message is.

Exactly. And my point was precisely that. Compiler output is a very hard thing to get right, because contexts rapidly get out of sync when reporting erroneous code. Different compilers may have more accurate output than others, when certain pieces of code get screwy.

As such, you may find it easier to understand what compiler XYZ is trying to tell you when it gives you a slightly ambiguous error, but shifting to a new compiler may yield a new message you're not used to.

In the grand scheme of things, this obviously isn't a large concern: you'll adapt and come to terms with it: but ProgramWizard was asking about moving for the first time, and hence why I brought up these concerns that he'll encounter his first time over.

Anyhow, my post was not meant as a listing of things that seasoned cross-platform developers (which you seem to be one of, zavie) have issue with, but rather what someone who's taking a first glance at working in C++ on Linux might encounter. People in those shoes often don't worry about running with the standard library, since their only frame of reference is one OS, one compiler, and one end binary.

[ProgramWizard]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm going to keep Windows on my main desktop, but I'm going to load Ubuntu on another machine and play around.

[zavie]

Enjoy! :-)
Note that you can install Linux on the same machine and have a dual boot. 5Go should be enough space to install anything. I have recently tried partition resizing with Partman: it works perfectly.

[ProgramWizard]

I decided against dual booting; I already have a lot of big programs installed on here, and I dont' want to take up any more room.

Besides... I think I want to try my hand at developing my own OS. Too bad I'm the world's worst programmer...

[zavie]

eddie said:

I'm sorry you disagree with this, but rereading my post, I would only amend my comment about "there is a lot of differences" to "there are a few differences, that might catch you". That's really the spirit of my post anyhow.
[...]
In the grand scheme of things, this obviously isn't a large concern: you'll adapt and come to terms with it: but ProgramWizard was asking about moving for the first time, and hence why I brought up these concerns that he'll encounter his first time over.
[...]
People in those shoes often don't worry about running with the standard library, since their only frame of reference is one OS, one compiler, and one end binary.

Then I share your point. :-)

By the way, I have been highly disapointed when I discovered that VC++6 had a special option, disabled by default, to follow what tells the C++ standard about the for local scope.

[eddie]

Yes. *Requiring* /zc:forScope rather than having it as a default is a travesty.

Then again, some people maintain that VC 6.0 *isn't* a C++ compiler, considering the mayhem it lets you get away with.

I really hated the /Za (or it /Ze?) thing for added MS extensions by default too. Some crazy things were possible with that configuration.

Anyhow, I'll stop commenting before this turns into a hijack, I'm too good at that. :)

[Mihail121]

I would recommend Slackware, because it has FAT support (it can even be installed on a FAT partion) and can be bootet from a floppy, which actually makes it's existance along with other OSes possible.