83 replies to this topic

[Ed Mack]

Yeah, I really badly want to create some sort of lue scripted ai, that edits its own code via the C functions that run it. Yes many times it'll cripple, but in normous numbers over a very long time, something small and interesting might appear :)

[davepermen]

hehe..

till now, it ALWAYS ran into a repeating pattern.. its just some recursive function in the end..

[UnknownStranger]

davepermen said:

till now, it ALWAYS ran into a repeating pattern.. its just some recursive function in the end..

Hmm...I think it's smarter than we believe...it seems to be just lazzy:
it doesn't want to learn anything new... ;)

[davepermen]

a recursive function that filled my harddrive of 60gb in.. 10 recursions i think.. or (after the hd stopped rotating), some minutes:D (the recursive steps don't take long.. writing out gigabytes does:D)

yeah, smarter as we thought..

[anubis]

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and of course, ai can get built in there then..

do you think so ? one major point of our human intelligence is self counciousness.
imo modelling a system no matter how big and complex you build it will/can never reach a level of complexity where the system can recognize itself and know of it's existance in a way we humans do. AI i think will always be just a very smart way of finding solutions or part solutions to problems unless we find that thing in us that makes us self councious beings.

[davepermen]

i don't think we are any bether actually..

[anubis]

well, i know that i am here... i don't think that an AI will ever gain that knowledge. i'm not talking about the quality of our actions. it's just that we are no robots

[UnknownStranger]

How do you know, that "you" "are" here?

[davepermen]

sais who.. we just think we are here.. theres a good chance ai can start to show up similar behaviour in their world..

in fact, we're just a chemical reaction like any other.. the soul doesn't exist, its a selfsaving mechanism, wich got built out of the survival of the strength.. other chemical constructs got destructed quickly.. "lifeforms" not.. thats why they are still there..

there's nothing magical, special, mystical, or noncopyable in our life actually..

for me, thats the most magical about it. it doesn't feel like its nothing.. and its impressive that it doesn't.. nature did a good job:D

if you know something just acts because of some simple rules, its beautiful and magical to watch it behave very complex in big scenes.. like swarms, like water, or for example sand flowing.. like trees, forests growing.. you know that are all simple cells acting like they are programmed to (yep, we're "machines" :D), still, they create the most beautiful world i know of.. ours

in that sence, we're merely a failconstruction, as we work hard on destroying our planet :D

[UnknownStranger]

Yeah, it's always amazing to imagine, that this "thinking" that we do is actually just chemical reactions... ;)

[davepermen]

yeah..

[anubis]

*edit*

i posted a rather long post here which will lead to a lengthy discussion i don't want to be part of instead i'll boil it down to what is important.

people who pretend to know for sure that we are merely the sum of our atoms are as ignorant as christians who pretend to know the oposite.

i take it that AI is the tower of babel of our times...
we simply try to be some kind of god by creating the perfect image of ourselfs...

[davepermen]

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i believe that we are more than the sum of our atoms.

no

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if you don't exist then explain to me why you have a sensation when you see the color red or when you taste sugar. and what exactly is that sensation when you see or taste it.

because you're trained to behave that way.. its just some hormones sent out. you can produce every sort of feeling with hormones, its doable, and i've actually done it myself. known as medicine, known as alc, known as drugs, etc.. (not much drugs, though.. and it was not planned).

just as a drug can make you feel happy because of the chemical process behind, so can the red color do. it results in the same reaction in the end, thats about it.

reason why red? don't know.. tell me a reason why not red? possibly that was just a mutation, possibly it has a reason. fact is, it survived till today.
reasons for red: blood, fire, both are red. they can mean different things in different situations => we should react on this

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no matter what, i don't beleive in AI. it's the dream of creating the perfect image of ourselfs that will never come true. take it as the tower of babel

i don't myself. i don't think actually that WE are intelligent. artificial life? no problem. the world SHOWS that this is doable. intelligence is a "creation" of humans for modern "survival of the fittest", nothing more.

we're just a bunch of cells. you can say that a cell only behaves chemically logical. you can even simulate cells 100%. thats easy, as its small, and not that much atoms. okay, 100% simulating gets difficult, as physics on that low level aren't that well defined yet, but for the rest..

cells happen to stick to eachother, and it happens that those groups liked to say with each other.. like CO2 likes to be together, or H20, just with celltypes as atoms. they don't behave in any form non-precalculateable at all, its all simulate-able.

now do it bigger, and bigger, you come to ant-like buildings, to humans, elephants, and in the end bluewale-like buildings.


you know what? as no ai could ever explain why it exists, and never touch the "outer world", where their "god" lifes, that created them, we can never go out of our 3 dimensions, physics, and our space, and we can never explain WHY we exist, and we can never see our "god", that created us.

there is no reason why we exist. possibly we're just another student project.

there is nothing special in our life, in our world, except one thing: complexity. its a huge particle system, but i've yet to see anything that complex built by very simple pieces and very simple rules.

[anubis]

lol, davepermen already responded while i was editing my post.
damn he's quick !

[anubis]

davepermen : read schoppenhauer and what he wrote about sensations and why we are mistaken to believe that they are fully explained by their chemical characteristics

[davepermen]

why should i? i know he's wrong! :D

couldn't resist..

you know what? i don't CARE in RealLife™ about that! why? because it FEELS like we are more. while there is no reason that we are more, and there are tons of reasons that we are not, that doesn't mather as it FEELS like we are more.

i currently feel hell sad because i miss my gf, and i feel scared of the fact that i possibly lost her, and i'm praying even while i don't believe much in god that i haven't lost her yet and that i don't, because i love her

those are all feelings. all just a chemical process.. doesn't make the FACT (yeah, a fact!) wrong that they ARE REAL. i do have those feelings, i have them since the last 3 days and i'm nearly breaking because of them..


believe me, i _KNOW_ there is more. still.. there isn't..

[anubis]

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you know what? i don't CARE in RealLife™ about that!

hm, i couldn't care less, either...
simply for the fact that humans aren't meant to know the truth about that.
hordes of people are getting depressive because they are looking for an answer they will never find. and what's the difference for us. as you said it feels real to us no matter if it is real or not.

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why should i? i know he's wrong!

well,... isn't the beauty of life that we all can believe in different things =]
i "know" what makes me happy and floats my boat and so do you, that should be the only thing that matters.

but enough with the philosophical rambling...
back to the topic...

[anubis]

hm, sorry... i didn't mean schoppenhauer, i meant wittgenstein... must have mixed up the names somehow. anyway i'm going to post link as soon as i find one

[davepermen]

thanks, lets have a look at the papers from him..

btw.. the "i know he's wrong" was actually sort of sarcastic humour according to the issues with my gf.. but thats an entierly other, and private, topic..

...


:( :sigh:

[anubis]

it appeard to me as a rather moronic remark so i stoped arguementing =]
i'll post the piece of text i was talking about later tonight or tomorrow.