30 replies to this topic

[Alex007152]

darqSHADOW said:

I hate to be a pessimist, but the way I see it, this will end up doing nothing more than launching hundreds of cookie-cutter MMO's. Over 15 years ago this happened when MUDs were first made open source, you ended up with hundreds of the base-code running all over the net, and not a single one of them stood out until people started code-hacks and the like. Then you get into the fact that they are using a scripting language for logic, which hurts speed, and limits innovation -- so even though you spend a year or two on your scripts, it still "feels" the same. The same way a DikuMUD (no matter how highly modified) still feels like a DikuMUD. Add to this that they are selling animated models, and you end up with people spending hundreds of dollars on the code and models, only to end up with the same exact thing everyone else has -- a cookie-cutter MMO. Then you have to consider the fact that a 3D MMO will take more bandwidth than a MUD -- and now you've got to consider hosting costs. So now you have an upfront of a few hundred dollars, and a few hundred dollars a month, and what do you have? An empty MMO that no-one wants to play, because there are hundreds of others just like it.

That is not progress, IMO.

DS

I must agree with you. I am quite sure there will be tons of new mmorpg's that are basicaly quite the same over 10 years for instance. Not only due to tools like RealmCrafter. There will be just so many that you must come up with very new origional features to become popular as there will be tons of mmorpg's. Sure, RealmCrafter is a good tool, but it does make it harder for everyone to lead a succesfull mmorpg as there will be tons of nearly the same. Even if they won't be the same, there will still be tons. I seriously doubt Solstar Games cares about this fact so yeah i agree with you.

[semajhs]

I agree, they are mostly going to be cookie cutter games.

Making a game with "no programming required" is not really making a game :no:

The REAL games you see and buy are not made with these tools....why? They are no good, you cant really make worthwhile games with them. You will come off with billions of the same game as shown before.

I think to a person that is actually making and programming a game it is annoying when someone makes this in an hour and sais they are a game developer and might as well try and get a job

Plus, have you seen your site?

Atleast make it look legit, even if it is, you need to give it a facelift.

Do the devs talk the the forum? Take advice from people? Make the "engine" better.

There is almost no good art to look at and the website is junk, the forums are filed with posts, but mostly about the same stuff.

If this is supposed to be legit and professional make it like that. This is just a downgrade of torque for mmo's, get ready for the same games....over and over...and filled with bugs

[gillvane]

When this thread was originally started, MMORPG Maker was mostly a fansite for Realm Crafter. Since then, we've started covering any sort of software that allows you to make an MMORPG, like the Torque kit, or Multiverse, etc.

One point that is constantly overlooked (and I'm not sure why) is that the Pro version of Realm Crafter includes the source code. So, if you don't like something, you can change it, with some programming. There is also a second version of Realm Crafter in production (RC2) which will update the graphics to direct x 9 (it's currently dx7). That should help the dated looks quite a bit.

I believe that lots of companies use engines, and modify them. What's wrong with that?
The hardest part, IMO, is the artwork. It's hard to produce good 3d animated artwork in the quantities you need for an MMORPG.

Nobody said any of these programs would let you make WoW all by yourself. But it seems lots of people want to make an MMORPG, even if it's small, or cookie cutter. This sort of software is still in it's infancy, so we'll just have to wait and see if anything worthwhile comes of it. I'd like to see it take off like the FPS modding community, but you never know.

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com

[ikodus]

gillvane said:

Realm Crafter will allow someone to make thier own MMORPG without any programming. If you want to customize your game you can get the pro version and do some programming to add the features you want.

To make your game unique, add your own 3d models, or use the generic ones that come with the software.

If you'd like to discuss Realm Crafter, or share some of your 3d models, drop by MMORPG Maker.

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com/

An MMORPG made without any programming using 'the generetic ones that come with the software', how is someone planning to achieve anything without any programming and 3d models that came with realmcrafter? Well, unless you do it for personal experience and want to play it with some friends only but its seriously unlikely that someone else will play it.

And can i ask why you put 'http://www.mmorpgmaker.com/' in nearly every post? (good advertising trick though)

[gillvane]

ikodus said:

An MMORPG made without any programming using 'the generetic ones that come with the software', how is someone planning to achieve anything without any programming and 3d models that came with realmcrafter? Well, unless you do it for personal experience and want to play it with some friends only but its seriously unlikely that someone else will play it.

And can i ask why you put 'http://www.mmorpgmaker.com/' in nearly every post? (good advertising trick though)

Yes, many people are planning on making MMORPGs using just the stock models that come with RC, and not doing any programming, so they can make a game for their friends, or for the general experience of learning how the different features of an MMORPG work.

Generally, if you make anything even halfway decent, and offer it for FREE, more than likely you'll get some players. If you want to charge money, you'll need to program in unique features, make unique models, and be a very talented team.

The ATiTD team did it from scratch, so I dont' see why someone working with an engine couldn't succeed also.

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com

[Akano]

Where is the learning if you only have to "glue" parts together?

Yes there are many people that want to make a mmo, but i think if they really want to make one they should learn it the normal way and not with a "maker" that will do all for them.

-sarcasm on-
Its a good idea to make some money with the dreams of others, this will help the market to get bigger.
-sarcasm off-

Sorry for this, but as i am working in the industry and i am programming for a mmo i only can tell everyone who want to make one, dont use a tool, learn to make it from scratch. Then you have a chance in the industry.

Cheers.

[gillvane]

Akano said:

Where is the learning if you only have to "glue" parts together?

Yes there are many people that want to make a mmo, but i think if they really want to make one they should learn it the normal way and not with a "maker" that will do all for them.

-sarcasm on-
Its a good idea to make some money with the dreams of others, this will help the market to get bigger.
-sarcasm off-

Sorry for this, but as i am working in the industry and i am programming for a mmo i only can tell everyone who want to make one, dont use a tool, learn to make it from scratch. Then you have a chance in the industry.

Cheers.

If you think that someone running a MMORPG using an engine will learn absolutely nothing, you're just way off base. For one thing, you learn alot about customer service, and building a community. Not everyone has those skills, believe me.

It's kind of silly to tell someone to just go make an MMORPG from scratch. How many people in the world can actually do that? I'm not being rhetorical here, I'd really like to know.

Besides, why can't you do BOTH? Is it impossible to learn programming while you're running an MMORPG built with an engine? So, instead of having some fun and running an MMORPG, you shouldn't do that because somehow it's bad, and just wait till you can program one from scratch? But maybe if you run an MMORPG with an engine, it puts a curse on you, and you can never learn to program one after that.

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com

[Akano]

Good points on marketing your product. But i think you know that customer service, and building a community are not the first steps on the way to make a mmo also you should know that there where many out there making mmo's from scratch and if not, now you know one of them ;) Also everyone who wants tho make a mmo from scratch can do it, they have only to learn all the steps that are needed. I think there are many people that can do more than two thinks, but running a mmo is more time intensive than some other things.

At least i want to ask you what is your definition of an engine?

Cheers.

[gillvane]

Akano said:

At least i want to ask you what is your definition of an engine?

Cheers.

Good question, but I don't know the answer. There are engines that just render graphics, and other engines do a lot more.

Typically engines don't include network code, but there are third party solutions for that part of the equation as well.

Also, an engine might be bundled with tools for creating game mechanics and network code.

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com

[Warrior]

Yep, there are quite a few there that seem to be making “cookie cutter” games. I think this is pretty much true even in the realm of making mud’s. Just how many default mud games are in existence cluttering up the Internet? Well probably less now since I’ve noticed mud server space providers closing down now a days, but then you have those that take what they have and turn it into something unique and still get players.

How about the case for Big World? Is that only capable of making cookie cutter games? Seems like they have been getting some business lately such as with the Star Gate mmo game along with other development accounts. Yet it is just a tool like RC, so I guess Star Gate will be no different than any other game made with Big World?

The actual case is that RC is a tool that is only limited by a developers capabilities of making something unique in comparison to the default project. They simply market the basic idea that anyone can make a game in no time at all, which is true, but it does not seem to limit the skills of the more serious developer in regards to making a quality and unique independent game.

I think the difference between Big World and RC is just that BW is further along in development, though RC does not require $100.000.00 to get in the door and all the additional fees that revolve around your finished game project for the life of the game. Oh well, time will tell, all journeys start with a first step.

[Rofar]

Well this is a pretty old thread re-awakened but obviously many people don't really understand what it means to have a tool that "requires no programming". It requires no programming to use but that doesn't mean your going to be able to produce a decent, playable game without programming. Also, a lot of folks misunderstand what it means to "put pieces and parts together" or "glue together". That in no way means it's a simple process. You better know what you are doing if you embark on using a tool such as Realm Crafter. If you take the approach that it's easy and you don't have to know anything, you will fail miserably.