28 replies to this topic

[alphadog]

Gnarlyman, on 20 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Is there a particular and strong reason why MS is flipping over so much of the apple cart for the new OS?

Nobody knows for sure. The most visible reason is to begin a transition from a desktop-only OS to one that can bridge multiple device types and thus stay relevant and plugged into where the biggest growth is happening. The other reason is to start a move away from the archaic Win32, which is very much tied to x86, and be able to move a little more swiftly with different architectures, namely ARM chips.

Gnarlyman, on 20 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I need to be able to programmatically mess around with nuts and bolts polygon and vertex info, lighting junk, blah blah, basically a bunch of custom shader and algorithm stuff that needs to fit in the pipeline in its heart.

Well, looks like you want something lower level then that offer you much more control. (Or, you want to purchase Unity and source) I would consider looking at Axiom. It's a port of OGRE to C#, rides over Mono. Mono itself has C# targets for Android and iOS. One thing I've not found, but not looked for, is if someone has combined all these things into a really portable engine that usues C#. I happen to like that language, generally-speaking.

[Stainless]

Gnarlyman, on 20 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Would using D3D within a simple .NET environment right now be the best way for me perhaps?

Sorry, not even this is safe. I have been yelled at in other discussions for saying this but, I know I have read that Microsoft have announced they will be dropping .Net.

I cannot remember where I read it, but I remember it sparked a big meeting at work as one branch of our code relies on .Net.

Gnarlyman, on 20 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Unity looks awesome; I just need to be able to get down 'n dirty with the code.

I am the same, hate "engines" like this that seem to be designed for graphics artists to create games.

[Gnarlyman]

Thanks alphadog, I'm checking out axiom as we speak.

RE Win8: so, any read if people are excited about this? I gather it's a push towards a very streamlined OS, taking into account that today's OS is much more than what they used to be, and still are to a great degree. That is, with almost all devices and softwares out there making a "unified" push to some degree (as much as it is possible with whatever it is), merging together into a great technological whole, it seems Win8 is geared much more than Win32 to encapsulate all of this. However, I still never like when newness means making past things "legacy", versus nice, seamless incorporation and integration. It also hurts when, in the midst of the modern tear to unify all technologies and devices into a streamlined body, several different companies are producing their own unified technologies...

Gosh, to just be able to program games, man.

RE Unity: yeah, that's what it seems like to me, Stainless. I'll check it out though, see if there's anything I can garner from it.

[geon]

Gnarlyman, on 20 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Also, on Unity: I downloaded it yesterday, played around with it, learning about it. It seems it's more of a "game creation" environment more than an actual code-oriented software (although I know that's there judging from online tutorials). I need to be able to programmatically mess around with nuts and bolts polygon and vertex info, lighting junk, blah blah, basically a bunch of custom shader and algorithm stuff that needs to fit in the pipeline in its heart.

Unity is a game creation tool. But it also let's you "script" almost everything in C# (and their "Javascript" wannabe or Boo). Check out the scripting documentation, and you will get a better idea of what is possible.

You can't really "mess around with the nuts and bolts". But there are a lot of thing you can do anyway. You mention vertices and polygons. That's no problem at all. You can access them individually with your code, or (I believe) through vertex shaders.

The lighting is implemented with shaders, so it should be no issue at all. You can create completely custom shaders with HLSL. (I think it was HLSL. Could be one of the other perhaps?) You can even create fallback fixed function shaders. You can also define in what order shaders should be rendered etc. if that is important.

Again, read the documentation. Unity is MUCH more competent than just a drag and drop toy game creator. Check out the games on their gallery.

[fireside]

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I just need to be able to get down 'n dirty with the code.

You can add your own vertexes, shaders, etc, but you would be doing it calling Unity functions. If you already have code written, it would probably be a big rewrite. If you are using Unity, it's generally for all the visual editors, etc. If you don't plan on using those, it would probably be better to use opengl with something like SFML.

[Gnarlyman]

Thanks a lot geon and fireside, awesome awesome. That def gives me renewed hope about Unity. One of the things I really really dig about Unity is how streamlined the cross-platform production is. Unless I misunderstood the basic rap sheet on it, it lets you whip up your game and then, with what amounts theoretically to a "one-click" dealio, produce an end package tailor made for whatever it may be...Win, Mac, Linux, Steam, heck, even iOS stuff. If I can work with the code pipeline--manipulate vertices, matrices, lighting, etc., custom shader, blah blah, it'd be totally dandy. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards OpenGL and SFML or whatnot. If I can do the aforementioned stuff in Unity, however, it'd be golden.

PS--on a totally unrelated note of unrelatedness--how to get an avatar up? None of the image posting things are working...not the image uploader, URL linker...nothing.

[Gnarlyman]

PPS--here's a quick hitlist, specifically, of things I'm looking unto Unity as far as if it'd be able to handle:
-Custom shaders for polygon and per-pixel lighting; basically, I need to be able to totally control all lighting functionings with custom algorithms.
-I need to be able to generate basic meshes in-game and then use custom algorithms to "mold" them realtime.
-I need realtime access to line segments; manipulate them and their onscreen drawing
-Total control in the AI department
-I also would like the ability to create, form, and animate objects within Unity without prior 3D model importation. More specifically, I want to be able to, like in something like OpenGL and XNA, input vertice points via code and manipulate and animate the resulting models via some of my own algorithms.

[TheNut]

Gnarlyman said:

with what amounts theoretically to a "one-click" dealio, produce an end package tailor made for whatever it may be

Keep in mind it's no cookie cutter process. A game that runs well for the desktop may require some quality downsizing to run well on mobile devices. If you build your games with good programming design patterns (particularly read up on the model-view-controller), you can minimize the amount of maintenance necessary to support multiple platforms.

Quote

I also would like the ability to create, form, and animate objects within Unity without prior 3D model importation

I haven't used Unity, but I'm pretty confident such a popular engine can do all of your above requirements. Most animation is done using bones (aka skeletal animation), which Unity does support. Lots of people make and sell games based off Unity, so give it a try and see where you go.

[Gnarlyman]

Thanks T.N., well taken.

RE Unity and bones and all, I just posted a new thread in Graphics Theory and Programming about such things. If you can find it and have any insight as to my Q's, it'd be great. Whatever the case, thanks for the input you've given.