37 replies to this topic

[TheNut]

When it comes to anything Microsoft, MSDN is your bread and butter.

1. Cheat Sheet

2. Starting Out (see menu on the left)

I would only search the web for tutorials and stuff after you familiarize yourself with a bit of C# / .NET background. Many people have different ways of programming. Some good, most bad :) A lot of stuff out there can be old material as well. C# is an evolving language and it takes time for the new features to be explained on the web. MSDN does an excellent job keeping you up to date and provides best practices too.

With regards to XNA, check the CHM (compiled HTML) documentation that comes with XNA. It's pretty good for getting you started with 2D and 3D game development. And like C#, be cautious browsing the web for articles until you at least read the official MS documentation first. XNA 4.0 has API changes that have compatibility issues with XNA 3.0, and some articles out there target XNA 3.0 and not have the courtesy of telling you. There's also platform compatibility difference (XNA Reach vs HiDef), so don't get mixed up with that yet.

[Ben]

Mm thanks for the advice, both of you.

Im going to have a wander into London tomorrow and pick up a good book; would you suggest the " x for Dummies" series or not?

I already have the MSDN on my list of resources, it does seem very knowledge based though; just the facts stacked up, when i would rather learn through tutorials and examples.

Thanks again

[moe]

Personally I didn't like the "x for dummies". I prefer the "learn x in 21 days" series. But that really is a matter of taste. Go to the bookstore (maybe more than one) and look at different books before you decide on one. Briefly going over a book should tell you wheter you like it or not. Go through the capters and see if it has some consistent learning experience with decent source samples. Check that they mention how to set up a project etc. In a worst case you buy some book and by reading it you see that you don't actually like it. However, by then you know what to look for in your next book. Lather, rinse, repeat as they say.

[Ben]

Never been one for reading, but i guess its the best way to go; will defintely have a look in a few bookstores tomorrow.

Just to re-cap, these books won't really go over the material i need to produce smaller 2d games will they? Those resources will have to be drafted in from the net i guess?

[moe]

There are books about game development. However, for that the net is your best ressource. But it seams that for your stage it will be better to get a book about C# in general. Some beginners book to get the hang of the language. Once you are done with that you should know on your own, what further ressources you will need for a 2D game. Programming is more of a progress and takes time. Learning proper basics is never in vain and the concepts also apply to game development.

Reading is something you will just have to do anyway. I myself am slightly dyslexic so it always takes some time to read through ressources. But if you are really interested in it, you will get used to it.

[rouncer]

you can get special books tailored for video game programming, ask the guy at the bookstore if hes got any in stock.

Me personally, my portfolio is interesting, but its a little tacky looking :) i dont know if anyone would trust to hire this crazy loon kid. hehe

[Ben]

Thanks again for everybodies input, i purchased the " x in 21" days book, and will slowly start reading through it now; although it looks initally that learning this kind of code will be a long thing with alot to take it.

One thing i did wonder, is the age issue; does the game design industry take people in conflict of their age? or is it purly how good and what proof you have of your skill? I say this as i want to get thrown into it as soon as i feel i can.

[alphadog]

moe said:

The reviewer first sorts the resumes due to skills and experience. Here skill means mostly diplomas.... That might just be a cultural problem we have here

In the US, I'd say your most important asset is your portfolio. Even as a junior out of college, a "tier 2" degree + a notable portfolio goes much further than a "tier 1" degree.

Personally, I will first look for anything remarkable first and foremost. A great asset portfolio, an open-source project, a game I can download, etc.

Second is experience. More importantly, you have to be able to relate the experience to me, and to quantify why it is worth noting.

Distant third is grades and schooling.

Enough of the first two gets you at least a phone screening where, depending on how you do, gets you to an onsite test.

Degrees/certifications are useful to get past the occasional, poorly-setup HR filters in large corps. But, so are inside contacts... :sneaky:

ben said:

does the game design industry take people in conflict of their age

As much as any other industry.

[moe]

@alphadog
Interesting, in swiss it's really all about degrees/diplomas. Further more it has to be a diploma which is recognised by the state. Anything else counts pretty much as nothing. Getting a diploma from another country is not very helpful. At least that has been my experience while searching a job. Employers, job hunter agency etc. they all pointed that out. Like I said you can find a job without a diploma but it is much harder and you get less money. Actually your only real argument to get a job without a diploma is that you do the same work for less money. That can be interesting for an employer. The only other option would be a shitload of proofen experience but you wont have that if you could never find a job in the first place because you never got the required degree. Experience gathered on your own is worthless it would have to be "on the job" experience.

Inside contacts are hard to get here. You would have to know the owner of a company. Otherwise it wont get you very far. It can help to get an interview but after that you still compete with others who do have the needed diploma. Thus you are right back to square one. The only benefit can be that you know someone who can point you to a job offer you did not know about and therefore get you one more chance to apply for a job.

I can imagine this is very different in the US. Say you are capable of proofing your skill without any degrees or diplomas whatsoever, do you still earn as much as someone who got a kickass degree?


@Ben
You might want to get a decent knowledge in at least one programming language. Then build some small games. If you still want to get in the gaming industry by then you can always ask around for an internship. If you get one then work your ass off in order to get a good reference and proceed from there.

[Ben]

I think im going to learn C#, design a smallish 2d game and then move onto C++ and think about looking into more complex games.

I want to get semi-specialised in a program similar or even Unity; i wondered your views on this? For one, what are these kind of programs called? And are they valued in the business?

Thanks again

[fireside]

Unity is just considered a 3d game engine. I don't think it's going to help much in getting a job. If you are doing your own game, it's helpful to have all the built-in features, easy imports, etc. It's a good way to show a prototype idea, but the experience in using it is probably wasted when searching for a job unless they are also using Unity, which isn't going to happen much.
If you move on to c++, you might want to look at Ogre, which is quite a bit less convenient in that you have to add a lot of other c++ libraries, something a company would probably be interested in because it requires more programming skill to do the integration and that's something most companies will need to do with their engines.
That's one of the unfortunate things about game development and why I keep it a hobby. You'll probably also need to relocate if you find someone interested enough. You'll have to specialize to the point that it just becomes a job like any other where you are grinding out a cog in the machine, so it's not much better than any other programming job. From what I've heard, the hours are usually longer and the pay isn't anything to brag about. It's also not the most secure situation as a few bad games can ruin a company.
Your number one concern should be getting a CS degree as it opens up a large spectrum of jobs, not in just the gaming industry.

[alphadog]

moe said:

in swiss it's really all about degrees/diplomas. Further more it has to be a diploma which is recognised by the state.

Well, depending on the field, diplomas can matter in the US. Medicine, law, engineering.... but then again, it isn't so much the schooling itself as the board/licensing exams. However, some licensing boards do usually require some schooling to be eligible to take the exams.

Software development has, for better or for worse, no state or federal licensing exams in the US.

moe said:

Say you are capable of proofing your skill without any degrees or diplomas whatsoever, do you still earn as much as someone who got a kickass degree?

In software, yes. In fact, likely you have started earlier and maxed out faster, and without having to pay large tuition loans.

[Ben]

Thanks everyone for their input.

Ill defintely sway away from specialising in one engine just yet then, and probably concentrate on the more compuer science degree side of things.

To gain such a degree, is the only way to do it through university and its stupidly massive fee's? Or can you do the exams at home etc

Thanks again

[alphadog]

If you are in the US, "stupidly massive fees" are unavoidable if you want to play safe and get a degree.

Universities, esp. private schools, are basically turning into patent mills that fund corporations at the expense of hefty tuition to attendees that are brainwashed into thinking "Must go to university!". Kids become indebted in exchange for status that may get you a head start, but won't carry through the years.

BTW, I did go to a "good" university, and a well-designed comp. sci. program will do wonders to teach fundamentals so that you won't unknowingly reinvent it all, but the cost of schooling (and the growth rate thereof) in the US is getting insane...

[fireside]

"BTW, I did go to a "good" university, and a well-designed comp. sci. program will do wonders to teach fundamentals so that you won't unknowingly reinvent it all, but the cost of schooling (and the growth rate thereof) in the US is getting insane..."

I just looked and was very surprised. An online University can save some money, but who knows how respected the degree would be, and even online Courses are expensive. An associate degree in computer programming might get a person in some doors without going too heavily into debt. Yikes.
I was just reading some prognosticator, forgot his name, but he said schooling is the latest bubble. Once prices get like that, you work into a situation of the "haves" and "have nots" of a class based society.
Technology should be reducing those costs, so there's obviously something wrong. The same with health care. I'm not for government health care, I just think there's something wrong with the system. The AMA is a monopoly and the drug companies are in collusion with the government.

[Ben]

Are people questioning the price/worth aspect of things? Or am i lost?

[fireside]

Yes, it looks questionable to me. You could check and see if a state school in your area has an associate degree in computer programming. I don't know if that would do it or not. It would probably get you a programming job of some type. There are also some certification exams you can take from Microsoft and NCSA which would probably help along with a portfolio. C++ is used in games, but not so much in business, so you might want to know some .Net, Java or something also and get certified in one of them. It's nice to talk about dream jobs, etc, but when push comes to shove you have to get a job of some kind and it should be in a field of your choice.

[Ben]

Mm, thanks for the info again.

Seeming ever more apparent to me, that its quite a brutal industry, well quite hard to get into and even stay once your in.

Thanks again