29 replies to this topic

[alphadog]

Okay. I'm *really* tired of the idea that gaming for young girls must involve Miley Cyrus, anatomically-impossible princesses or putting dresses on chihuahuas. I'm not denying that young girls get into those, but wondering if we are perpetuating a vicious circle, a myth and a stereotype all at once.

Two questions:
- What games have you seen enjoyed by young girls that would buck the stereotype? My own daughters are addicted to LittleBigPlanet (we've started a "fund" to save up for LBP2 where they actually contribute allowance!), and do play a little ModNation as examples.

- What other concepts do you think would be interesting to girls?

[roel]

I remember that I was very impressed how quickly my niece learned to play Super Mario 64 when she was about 4 years old. And she enjoyed that. And sometimes I play Mariokart DD with a 9 years old girl, which is fun too. I hope that answers your first question.

[fireside]

I think the Sims have been more popular with women, so it would probably also apply to girls, and probably simulation games in general especially those that involve social skills. Probably something like a non-violent RPG also, where the tasks are more geared toward skills, but there is an underlying story with a heroine. Missing item adventure games. Nancy Drew adventure games are aimed at about the 10 year old level. Puzzle games.

[Mihail121]

Well, I've seen young girls (mostly schoolmates, 8-9-10 years old) play all kinds of games: Quake, UT, SimCity, Sims, Grim Fandango, Cyberia, Nox, BattleZone, Zelda, SuperMario, Mortal Kombat... so I don't really see a stereotype here. I believe everything is already the way it should be. Just give them a proper choice and they'll take what they like :)

[TheNut]

alphadog said:

What other concepts do you think would be interesting to girls?

SimKitchen?

Lol, joking aside, I've rarely seen girls play games. At least back in my day, girls were busy with television and soap operas. Not sure what today's generation is up to. I do know that women especially dig the puzzle scene.

[poita]

I don't know many girls in that age group, but of the ones I know in their early-ish teens, they all seem to enjoy casual games like Bejewelled, and Farmville.

[geon]

My sister (20 - does that qualify as young?) likes (and buy) adventure games.

[alphadog]

Heh. Twenty is "young woman", not "young girl"! I was thinking in the 8-14 years old range. I'm motivated by my daughters who don't like Barbie and Disney princesses and don't really have much to pick from in gaming, because games are either Barbie dressup or zombie killing.

So, the general opinion would be to shoot for the RPG/Sim genre, and explore what particular elements therein would make an appealing game to young girls.

[kvakvs]

Recently I have installed Hello Kitty Online. Patching it up to the playable level was a separate adventure worth 10 hours of waiting (5h bad attempt, reinstall, 5h good attempt, 3.5 gigs downloaded and unpacked).

That looks like the game kind of what you were thinking about.
You should spend few hours in there, to see all kinds of glinting pinky fairy =^_^= kawaii cuteness. That's good for little girls... and for my taste too, although I like bloody meat-mincing shooters and MMO as well :)

[Mihail121]

alphadog said:

Heh. Twenty is "young woman", not "young girl"! :) I was thinking in the 8-14 years old range. I'm motivated by my daughters who don't like Barbie and Disney princesses and don't really have much to pick from in gaming, because games are either Barbie dressup or zombie killing.

So, the general opinion would be to shoot for the RPG/Sim genre, and explore what particular elements therein would make an appealing game to young girls.

Jesus, man, you're wasting too much brain power on this. I strongly believe games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Arcanum and suitable for males and females of all ages.

[Rofar]

When my daughter was young she really enjoyed the Kings Quest series. Of course we had fun playing Mario Brothers and Mario Kart on nintendo also but to this day I think she has fond memories of the Kings Quest series on PC.

[rouncer]

I liked kings quest when I was younger, im sure girls and boys alike wonder how the computer understands the written text.

Its probably wide realised that adventure games are probably the healthiest of games to play.

[Hyper]

I used to play a whole array of games, and more than just PC games.
I'd play with five, six other people (three other girls, and three boys).

I'd play Gameboy games:
- Paperboy, Speedy Gonzolas

Nintendo games:
- Exodus
- Noah's Ark
- Megaman
- Some race car game with spikes, I can't remember the name
- Duck Hunt
- DDR? or some DDR styled game with a huge pad on the ground
- RoboCop (was really boring actually)

PC games:
- Return Fire
- Destruction Story
- Pull position
- Asteroids (loved it)
- Battle Zone (REALLY ADDICTING)
- Dig Dug
- Crime!
- One Must Fall 2097
- Jazz Jack Rabbit
- Shoot!
- Abuse
- Commander Keen
- Dark Reign
- StarCraft
- Diablo (really scary back then)
- Commandos: Beyond The Call of Duty (extremely fun puzzler)
- Some 3D cube game, really fun
- Jump n' Bump
- Crash
- Big Red racing
- Mortal Kombat
- and tons of others I could continually write....

A lot of those games were multi-player too (had three people on one keyboard).
I don't think there's any such thing as a "game for a girl" and a "game for a boy."
People are all different. Your sexual organs do not define what you do, and do not like.
Peoples behaviorism is determined by their instincts, their will, influence (culture/environment), and many other factors.
But this has nothing to directly do with their gender; Although people would like to think that it does, which goes hand-in-hand with their influences/will power/environment (they're all nearly synonymous when you think about it).

Summary: Gender does not define who you are.
Miley Cyrus has a GREAT TV show, and two good songs, the rest are crap.

[rouncer]

Totally agree, Hyper.

[fireside]

Quote

Gender does not define who you are.

I would disagree. Girls develop speech and socializing skills faster than boys. Boys are generally more interested in skills that have to do with hand/eye coordination. Male and female brains are different because of the sexual hormones testosterone and whatever the female one is. Men and women watch different movies. Ever heard of chick flicks? Those movies focus more on relationships rather than kung fu action. They tend to read different books. Very seldom will you see a guy reading romance novels. Why shouldn't they tend to play different games also? Obviously they do, just check out the male/female stats for The Sims compared to a first person shooter. Of course, those are averages and you can't predict individual behavior from them. Why does everyone think we should be some sort of unisex creatures? It's just not going to work. Most games have evolved for boys because boys have been first to computers and electronics. As it changes and a larger percent of the populations play games, we see a lot more casual games coming out, games that focus less on hand eye coordination, games that aren't about wholesale slaughter. That's mainly because more girls and women are playing them, along with a more mature audience in general. Let's face facts, most games are geared for an immature, male audience. Just because women play them, doesn't mean it would be their first choice if there weren't more to choose from.

[rouncer]

But I think its sexist to think that a woman couldnt be as good as programmer as a man, just because there is less of them.

On tv, I remember seeing shows about video games and there were girls getting interviewed about what they wanted in a game (most notably this girl said "how it controls is most important") and I totally agree with that. Girls play action games, even tho they are more of a male oriented genre... there is girls that will think that what a boy does is also fun for them, and we shouldnt stop them.

I guess maybe they are more tom boy like girls, but girls are changing, they wear pants these days, who knows what else will change. :)

But fireside, I guess you are right, girls are hard to understand sometimes cause they are different... but there is also girls that will be happy just treated like another fella' I think.

The girl power ranger gets in there just as hard as the boy power rangers do, and girls think thats also correct.

[Hyper]

fireside said:

I would disagree.
...
Why does everyone think we should be some sort of unisex creatures?

You've stated general theories behind males and females in their differences.
I said your gender does not define you; I did not say that males and females are identical.

Just because you're a girl, does not make you automatically love the colors pink, purple, and red, and love watching TV (soaps), reading books (romance novels), or other "chick flicks," and automatically hate playing with dolls (action-figures), and love playing with barbie-dolls.

It does not mean you automatically do not like sports (Baseball, StarCraft, Football, Cricket, the like).
It does not mean anything; Your gender does not define who you are.
If you honestly believe it does, you're more shallow than black ice.

[fireside]

Quote

It does not mean anything; Your gender does not define who you are.

I assumed it was a marketing/demographics question, not a womens lib thing. So, what type of game would attract the most young females? This kind of thing goes on all the time and doesn't mean it's a slam on anyone. You can look at statistics and there are larger market segments for certain sexes, ages, etc. There are overlaps. It might be that some boys play with Barby dolls, some girls with action figures, but when you are talking marketing, you go with the larger segment. It's called targeted marketing and goes on pretty much in any industry. This is a game site, not some kind of political/social site where a discussion like that might be more relevant.
Check out Her Interactive sometime, which makes the Nancy Drew games. This is a group of all female employees making games targeted for young females. They don't find anything wrong with it. Why should they? It's a strong female lead without boobs bouncing and guns flashing. We can use some of that type of variety.

[Mihail121]

fireside said:

Check out Her Interactive sometime, which makes the Nancy Drew games. This is a group of all female employees making games targeted for young females. They don't find anything wrong with it. Why should they? It's a strong female lead without boobs bouncing and guns flashing. We can use some of that type of variety.

That's a bit like the gay pride parades (I'm living in Berlin), nobody really cares or has anything against that the people are homosexual and nobody's judging them for it any more, but they somehow FEEL THE NEED TO SHOW IT TO EVERYONE by dressing themselves like clowns and making out in the bushes, although nobody gives a damn. Do I feel the need to show someone that I'm heterosexual? No. Same thing with Her Interactive, that's a bit like "OH, LOOK, GIRLS CAN MAKE GAMES FOR GIRLS AND WE'RE PRETTY GOOD AT IT!!!". Sure, you're good at it, you don't need to convince me of it, because I'm already sure of it. I've never expected anything else from homo sapiens, man and women alike, given our culture and technology is developed. Perhaps girls like dolls and pink colors more than boys, because we somehow still propagate relics of an the west old european culture through our modern culture to our children. My girlfriend's a sociologist, I have to talk with her on the matter.

[DracheHexe]

Well, my nine year old daughter likes these games:

Flat Out 2
Prince of Persia Series
Unreal Tournament III
Torchlight
World of Warcraft (tho not as much as the others)
The various LEGO games (Star Wars, Indy, Batman)
Hidden object and Bejeweled types casual games.

Oh, I even caught her playing Left 4 Dead once or twicewhen it was supposed to be her brother playing.

When we go to the store and go through the video game section she pretty much passes on the made for girl games liek the fashion ones or the horse ones or the pet care ones.

Not that she doesn't play those kinds of games, but she has a taste much like me for ones with more action than anything.

To me that would suggest that the market tends to "railroad" girls into these games with horses and puppies more heavily than anything.