9 replies to this topic

[Philderbeast]

Eventully....

Now if you have read this far your probably already getting started on the flame post saying there is no way i can do it with out putting in hundreds (at least) or hours before I start on it.

however I have had an idea to help reduce that a little, but I do understand that there is a lot of work to be done.


my idea if your still reading is to start making the game from the ground up, but build it by a process of prototyping and making completed games as i build up content and the engine to be capable of running a MMORPG.

so i am thinking start with pong or something similar to get the colision detection working and some basic gfx, then move to a 3d pong.

and slowly work up to a morrowind style RPG game (single player) then add small scale muiltiplayer (say 8 people) and then finally move to a full scale MMO

I'm not sure if this will work or if its a waste of time. but I figure I will learn a lot in the process and i have several checkpoints where I have a finished game that is playable so i can get the kick out of having a product that works along the way to keep my motivation up and also to get all the tools i will need working in the process.

anyone think this is a more manageable way to approach this style of project then simply attempting to dive in the deep end? or will it be more hassle than its worth

[v71]

Starting from pong to a fully functional mmorpg will take years and the technology will have moved on quite remarkably when you will be in the process to start something so complex like a mmorpg, so i would say stick with your dream and start coding.
What you will need is :
understanding of data structures vectors, lists, graphs
creating your data struct for holding meshes and levels or terrains
directx or opengl knowledge fo rendering
physics , collision detection,
network management
Note that all this topics will explode into many subtopics
i would say don't stay too long on pong or tetris because you will be fed up pretty quickly, i have my long experience in this field and i know its difficult to code a tetris clone when you think always to your real project
Another advice, don't look for people to help you over the internet you won't find anyone commited like yourself onto your project unles you pay for them

[Philderbeast]

yea i am planning on doing it all my self and the only reason i move between them is to gain a lot of the knowledge i will need as i code because i know i can NOT do it with my curreny knowledge.

and each mini project is just to give me a way to test each feature as i go really...

[kvakvs]

People try to make MMORPG as their first project because:
1. Its cool.
2. Other people will say you're cool.
3. Other MMORPG have great graphics.
4. You try terrain example in <insert name of graphic engine> and you think "Wow that's half of MMORPG already done in that example".

In practice even a simple 3-4 hour game is made of thousands of man-hours of work. Will you be able to keep up, alone, without any incentive except thinking that "im tired of this, but it is still cool".

[fireside]

Quote

yea i am planning on doing it all my self and the only reason i move between them is to gain a lot of the knowledge i will need as i code because i know i can NOT do it with my curreny knowledge.

and each mini project is just to give me a way to test each feature as i go really...

Very few people will accumulate the knowledge and skills they need to write an mmorpg. If they do, hardly anyone will play it because it's just not something one person can accomplish properly. Game programming is a rewarding hobby and you can build games that many people will play. Start small and work on game design, graphics and programming if you find that interesting. Eventually you will be able to decide what type of game you are capable of making as a single developer. If you are new to game programming you need to start in 2d and write some full games. 3d engines don't do as much as most people imagine they will, and you will need to learn to use things like matrices and vectors etc on top of what all games use like game loops, classes that use resources, etc. I would suggest downloading c# express and xna and going through some tutorials and possibly buy a book or two. Most of these people that plan on building their mmorpg really have no idea what's involved and might end up making some cheap knock off by putting some pre made models in an already written engine and pretending they did something. No one will play it and they will probably waste money keeping a server running if they ever get that far. In the end they will have done nothing at all because they didn't want to learn game programming, they wanted to make an mmorpg. There are others that will actually gain some of the skills needed but will never actually write a game because it's just too big of a project for one person. Play some short games made by single developers. Flash sites have them. Pop Cap games, etc. Those are games you can write. You can also write a few types of 3d games if you learn to model or find a modeler to work with, but a decent mmorpg is something that needs a large group of near professionals.

[alphadog]

You don't need to start as low as Pong, or Tetris.

You can create simple 3D games with, for example, blocks as characters and simple polygonal surfaces for landscape.

But, you do need to be prepared to make some "throwaway" games, esp. if you have never coded/scripted anything before. (Assignments at school do not count. Simple web apps do not count.) That why most people, like myself, recommend 2D games; they are easier to wrap your head around and complete. But, it doesn't have to be a 2D game first. It could be a no-frills subset of some of the game ideas you have for your "Big Dream Game".

These throwaway games are where you learn the more global ideas of how to architect a game, how to turn your game rules into good code, etc. You will do lots of things wrong at first, from simple blocks of code to larger architectural issues to game design problems. But, rather than doing those mistakes on your "dream" game, do it on something where the demoralizing work of full rip-and-tear rewrites doesn't have to happen.

[alphadog]

Also, while odds are stacked against you wrt to having any kind of real, financial success with an MMORPG out of a one-man team, it is not beyond the realm of impossible. There are small MMOs out there (with staffing of 1-4 members) pulling in five- or six-figures in revenue. (which, of course, doesn't mean it's all in your pocket. You have operating expenses after all.)

[SyntaxError]

You know I actually don't think it's a bad idea. I mean worst case you will learn a lot and hopefully make yourself marketable. I'm doing the same thing. I'm really just trying to do a demo to get more funding, but even if I fail I have gained so much knowledge and stuff I can add to my resume that I feel I can probably get a job as a game programmer pretty easily.

The only thing is I don't think you need to start at pong. It's kind of a waste of time. If you already know how to program there are many books that will directly get you stated in 3D game programming. It's really not that bad if you are a half way decent coder. I think there is a certain fear factor associated with it that get from reading too many forums :-) but in actually you CAN build a 3D game yourself. It probably just won't be a world beater.

[poita]

You don't have to start with pong, but until you've coded something like that you have no idea what problems are involved with games programming.

Tetris is probably a better game to start with. There's a few tricky problems involved that people generally don't think of when they think about making it.

[rogerdv]

What are your skills now? Perhaps you can jump directly into 3d, get the basics of D3D/openGL and then move to some advanced engine like Ogre. That would save you a lot of time.
But your plan sounds fine to me.