11 replies to this topic

[SuperJman]

sup yallz I wantz te makez SUPER l33t hax MMO with AMAZING grafix, and kewl stufz!!!!!!!!!!11one

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LOL good thing for everyone here that was only a prank, yes I have been through the awesome MMO idea stage but have realized I need to step up and actually start learning and doing something.

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Anyways I'm starting my fabulous game dev carrier with some text-based C++ games like a number guessing game etc. until I get to the point were I can make a text-based RPG (after that on to 2D, exciting!). I have lots of PHP, html/xhtml, Javascript, CSS, and other basic web related language experience. I have made a couple little fun web browser games and have some good footing in the programming world. But I have the urge to step up into the (dun, dun, Daaa...) C++ OOP world. I have spent lots of time researching stuff about C++, DirectX (for later on of course), and other more advanced programming things to know but I have yet to fully jump into it.

I have just been wondering a couple things:

1. What are some great books for C++, DirectX(or another graphics API you prefer, I have not personally chosen yet, DON'T start any flame wars though!), and anything else I need to get started.

2. Any on-line sources for the things above?

3. Did I miss anything I need to get started? In the beginning just a compiler and C++ IDE and then later on with 2D/3D, a graphics API, right?

4. What compiler/IDE is best? It needs to be free, please post I link I have been having trouble finding one myself. I can not find the download for GCC or Borland.

5. Any other advice?

Personally after I learn a bit with text based games I will go on to make 2D games. I am planning to make my own engine for this, is this a smart idea? My goal in the far (perhaps 2 or 3 years maybe longer but thats okay) future is to make my own 3D FPS engine as a combined team (with friends) project. I believed that making my own 2D engine although a difficult task would make the transition into 3D easier. Does that make sense? Is it a good idea? I heard that DirectX was easy to convert from 2D to 3D, thats why its my preference so far.

Oh and just to tell you before I make the 2D engine I will be making many random 2D games to get a good grasp on 2D programming before I dive into it. So don't go worrying or ranting now, I personally think my idea to take little steps up is a good one, I'm just asking for your realistic answers and advice.

Thanks for everything and anything! GO DEV'S!!!

~Jakob

EDIT: Oh and just to tell everyone I HAVE googled these questions a lot I just want personal suggestion for reasons like "its really good for learning this or that!", that kind of stuff is hard to find off of google and don't say I did not research. If you think its so easy give me your links to this stuff and it will be appreciated, thats all I want, I don't wanna break any rules.

[starstutter]

SuperJman said:

1. What are some great books for C++, DirectX(or another graphics API you prefer, I have not personally chosen yet, DON'T start any flame wars though!), and anything else I need to get started.

http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/1598633600
this book sounds like exactly what you need

As far as the DX/GL choice goes, my opinion is it really doesn't matter a great deal. I would start out with DirectX because (imo) it's easier to learn. But if you learn either fluently, switching later should be relativley easy.

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2. Any on-line sources for the things above?

this was extremley helpful when I first started out. It teaches basic DirectX
http://www.directxtu.../tutorials.aspx

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3. Did I miss anything I need to get started? In the beginning just a compiler and C++ IDE and then later on with 2D/3D, a graphics API, right?

that's the way to go I'd say

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4. What compiler/IDE is best?

Now THAT'S how you start a flame war ;)
Personally, I would recommend starting out with bloodshed C++. It's good for smaller projects and its got a simple interface. Later though you need to get into the visual studios, as trying to manage a large project in Dev is hair-pullingly, nawing-your-arm-off, drilling-a-hole-in-your-desk-with-your-forehead frustrating. Did I mention it's frustrating?

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5. Any other advice?

Start small, go big, and most of all, NEVER make release date promises untill you finally realize that you can never make an accurate release date promise.

[SuperJman]

"Beginning C ++ Through Game Programming, Second Edition (Paperback)" I actually picked this book up in a library once it seemed to be pretty good but at the time I was into PHP/MySQL for dummies. :) Oh and I already found the DirectX link, thats to bad but I wonder, did you pay for premium, like is it worth it?

WOW, okay this is creepy I downloaded bloodshed C++ shortly before I posted here. Everything you suggested I already found myself, well I did say I just wanted to see what peoples preferences were, luckily I found out I'm already on the right track! It's still a coincidence though.

Lastly I just wanted to point out some things about engines. Do most people make their own, like have you? And maybe just something about the difficulty I guess. It seams to me like a 2D engine would not be that hard but what really is a 2D engine? a 2D game? the main loop?

Thanks again!

~jakob

[SamuraiCrow]

There are a few 2d engines out there. If you want to learn an engine, you'll learn some scripting language such as LUA or Python but you'll learn some of how the internals work so that later on, you can figure out how it works in C++. One example of that is found at http://love2d.org/ .

If you'd still rather learn C++ then don't use an engine. Just use a few libraries for physics and some of the hard stuff and do the main guts of the game yourself. Find tutorials about game design and read books. I can't help you with DirectX tutorials because I only develop for non-Windows platforms and cross-compile for Windows later on.

[ville-v]

I would use SDL and SDL_net as the engine (Edit: it is engine to be used with the C++, so you still have to know programming). It is easy to use and very portable, and if your client runs on platforms which do not have many good games, you will have much more players.

If you do not want to make base of the gui by yourself, check our guichan, with which you can easily create lightweigh menus and windows.

[alphadog]

SuperJman said:

1. What are some great books for C++, DirectX(or another graphics API you prefer, I have not personally chosen yet, DON'T start any flame wars though!), and anything else I need to get started.

Books? What are those? Seriously, there more than enough to drown in online.

SuperJman said:

2. Any on-line sources for the things above?

Obviously, I'd answer yes. Google will quickly help you locate things like free C++ books, Python books, things like the Graphics Gems series, etc... Then, for the real esoteric topics, nothing beats forums with experts.

SuperJman said:

3. Did I miss anything I need to get started? In the beginning just a compiler and C++ IDE and then later on with 2D/3D, a graphics API, right?

Yes.

SuperJman said:

4. What compiler/IDE is best? It needs to be free, please post I link I have been having trouble finding one myself. I can not find the download for GCC or Borland.

What platform? I'll assume Windows. In that playground, there is no use to go elsewhere than Visual Studio. There are free versions (Express editions, http://www.microsoft...amedevelopment/ or slightly more HP with http://www.microsoft.com/express/vc/) to get your feet wet. VS is a fine IDE, not perfect, but then again none of them are. That's precisely why there can be religious wars about IDEs.

You can also check SharpDevelop (.NET editor) or Eclipse (catch-all IDE, not as .NET strong). But, you might as well start at VS since what you learn there will give you skills directly usable for employment in this field, and regular fields like business app development should you chose to change tracks.

Otherwise, on Linux, I'd look at Eclipse, Jetbrains or NetBeans. GCC is not worth your while on Windows (I may get flamed, but this is just purely pragmatic POV for somone who's likely already overwhelmed) and on Linux comes as default on any distro you use.

Borland, now CodeGear, is not worth your time, IMO. Delphi is a great language, cross-platform, and you can make games in it. But, it is a rather uncommon environment that I would not recommend as your starting point.

SuperJman said:

5. Any other advice?

Apart from the fact that you seem to have learned from the umpteen repetitions of "baby steps" on this and other forums? You seem to have a healthy dose of caution that doesn't kill your enthusiasm.

Just go for it. Make your mistakes early and fast is the best I can say.

As for your build-vs-get on engines questions, you won't find a good answer. Given the contrasted scenarios of getting a good engine and getting familiar with it versus spending the talent/time to build one you'll know inside out, you'll likely spend as much time figuring out and getting really used to the former as it will take to build the latter. This is a very generalized statement, and if you asked me to make a call, I'd say my personal preference is "don't build", and add that a) you'll avoid having to code up bog-standard stuff which can be drudgery, and you'll start working on the details of your actual game earlier, which is the exciting part. If you're curious about various common game code problems, like collision detection and such, just read up on it.

As is often quoted in this forum:
http://scientificnin...mes-not-engines

[SuperJman]

alphadog said:

Books? What are those? :) Seriously, there more than enough to drown in online.

While that may be true, I personally learn better from books than on-line resources. Usually on-line sources don't explain things well or enough in depth for me but they are GREAT references.

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Thanks to everyone who replied, it helped a lot! Unfortunately I must part myself from devmaster and get to work, Text games and C++ books anyone? I'll most likely be back with some questions, MAN I can not wait to make pong or something! (I'll make it 4 player to and you know it!)

Oh lastly I found, Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus by Lamothe at my local library. Anyone read this? is it worth picking up?

Over and out,

~Jakob

[alphadog]

SuperJman said:

While that may be true, I personally learn better from books than on-line resources. Usually on-line sources don't explain things well or enough in depth for me but they are GREAT references.

There's lots of "noise" online, but there are (depending on language or concept here) lots of fabulous online resources.

But I agree that books are sometimes better. For example, if you have downtime and are not near a connection online, a book would be good to have.

Great game and/or C++ books to have, off the top of my head (I may add later from home):
- Game Coding Complete
- Game Programming Gems
- The C++ Programming Language (Stroustrup)
- Core Techniques and Algorithms in Game Programming
- Accelerated C++
- Essential Mathematics for Games and Interactive Applications
- 3D Game Engine Architecture
- Core Techniques and Algorithms in Game Programming

[SamuraiCrow]

SuperJman said:

Oh lastly I found, Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus by Lamothe at my local library. Anyone read this? is it worth picking up?

I have that book. It is quite obsolete now. Only read it if you want to learn DirectX 7.0 . (The latest DirectX for WinXP is 9.0c, I think. Vista comes with DirectX 10.0 .)

[losethos]

If you're looking for a simple game development environment, try the LoseThos operating system -- http://www.losethos.com. It has a compiler.

[starstutter]

losethos said:

If you're looking for a simple game development environment, try the LoseThos operating system -- http://www.losethos.com. It has a compiler.

Hey, I'm not ragging on you here (welcome to Dev btw :) ) but you may want to post different topics other than plugging. I know you're just trying to get your product out, but don't get "spam-bot" as an early reputation, we have enough of those ;)

[ville-v]

losethos said:

If you're looking for a simple game development environment, try the LoseThos operating system -- http://www.losethos.com. It has a compiler.

Why would anyone program on an operating system which customers are not using? It is not like anyone is going to switch to it for just one game.