In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 18:33

vinmar: I guess you probably have mIRC. Open it up, go to irc.enterthegame.com an then join #devmaster. Enjoy

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 15:37

hey, just saw over on flipcode that there is a new game writing contest.
just an idea… if this project ever makes it ( and i hope it will ) we could try to enter into a competition.
i mean after this project we should be able to function as a team.
i think it could be quite a challange…

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 13:37

@donBerto

why don’t we start discussing what we want and not want in the irc channel

Right, so remind how that works again?! Is there a channel or something? I’ve never really used IRC, I have a client, but thats all, never done much with it. Well, I’ll figure it out, just need to get home first.

donBerto, isn’t it like 7am there or something? What are you doing up already?

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 13:37

If things are to start off…
1) Getting the design docs first. Lets say - WHAT kinda game (SIM afaik)
2) What is the theme of the game
3) Lang, Graphix Lib.

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 13:14

dave: d looks, sounds good.
everybody: i’m really glad the initiative has been set forth. why don’t we start discussing what we want and not want in the irc channel [so we can log and what not] and then start from there.

:yes:

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 12:10

The time for talk has passed. More action. ;)

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 11:03

i tihnk the first thing to do is finding out exactly what kind of game we want to write, how big it will get, etc.
then we can decide wether the scale of the game and it’s story leaves us enough time for writing own tools, an engine, etc.

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 10:56

daveperman: Ok, I’ve always like the idea of developing outside an IDE, not sure why though… its so easy!

fringe: I agree, it does sound like a lot of work. But I don’t think our sights should be set on a complete game. Instead, the first milestone should be all that we are thinking about (whatever that milestone is). That way at least the end is in sight!

Hey! We can use my game engine! It has collision detection using winged edge modelling, but no ‘bouncing off of objects’ yet. And it loads .ms3d milkshape models. Erm, thats about it so far. :-s

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 10:47

apex : i have solid knowledge of c/c++ and have been coding hobby games and small engine projects for quite some time now. so i would like to give it a shot at doing a full scale game. i have no group programming experience though. but that is just another point why i would really like to get involved ( learning by doing ).

i would like to write an “in-house” engine, too, but given the game ideas that showed up until now i’m not sure if we can do that in reasonable time. i think chances are that the project would drift away in the “we wrote the engine but never finished the game” direction. after all, looking at other community projects, IMHO, the worst enemy is time.

another problem will be game art. because as i see it we have a lot of people who are burning to code the game but no ( correct me if i’m wrong ) artists. i wouldn’t like to see a game that suffers from the programmer art syndrom.

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 09:33

@vinmar

@davepermen

i’ll suggest we’ll all use d

D looks good, but how efficiently does it run? I thought an issue with garbage collection was that programs didn’t run as quickly?

Also, you’ll be taking my nice .NET IDE away from me :(

gc is not a problem. main reason it got into discussion is because java and c# have it. they are at the same time both runtime compiled languages. different to d.
that runtime compilation takes quite some overhead. negitible often, too. but existing.

i suggest to try d. it has a big chance to grow and replace much tasks of c++. its quite a bit easier. espencially for small apps, i don’t see any reason to not use it anymore.

except my current ****ing problem.. :(

garbage collection is not an issue.

first: you can disable it if you explicitely want. you can use malloc and free if you explicitly want.
second: gc are quite advanced and quick today. you can read up about it on the page
third: most code does not need 100% efficiency. 99% is enough. all code needs 100% savety. d makes this easy..

anyways, still having those ****ing pointer-to-array problems…

d is definitely not yet as sweet usable as vs.net, but actually TextPad gives you a nice platform to code in. and for the rest?
\dmd\bin\dmd simple.d someclass.d dada.d otherfile.d whatever.d sdl.lib opengl32.lib whateverother.lib

and DONE :D

i always write such batchfiles:

@echo off
\dmd\bin\dmd simple.d someclass.d dada.d otherfile.d whatever.d sdl.lib opengl32.lib whateverother.lib
simple.exe

doubleclick, and it starts running..

sure, it cannot beat an intel c++ or microsoft visual studio.net 2003 compiler with inline sse, sse2, and everything, and huge optimizers and all the bunch. but it is definitely much a simpler language to compile, resulting in fast executables and fast compilations right from the start.

and the strings are most the time more efficient than the c strings..

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 09:01

This lookslike alot of work but I am in if it gets off the ground. However I have no idea about any of the stuff mentioned by Apex but it all sorta looks like a good idea. I think I would like to make our own engine just because I would like to know how to do it and the best way to do learn something is to do it. However I can see the wwisdom of using a premade engine. Is there one anywhere on the net which is sorta half done that we could pince and upgrade this would be like a half way house.
Is there room here to plan and stuff if we wanted to develope it as a comunity project?
Anyway just ideas in the wind at the moment,

fringe

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 08:31

@davepermen

i’ll suggest we’ll all use d

D looks good, but how efficiently does it run? I thought an issue with garbage collection was that programs didn’t run as quickly?

Also, you’ll be taking my nice .NET IDE away from me :(

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 07:49

i’ll suggest we’ll all use d, because d is much nicer to code. has automatic “unit testing” facilities, and similar stuff. bugless coding is much much easier:D

go for d!!! :D

sorry to walk a bit offtopic, hehe.

greatest thing. d can use c libraries. i just successfully got d working with opengl and sdl.. and, i think apex likes to hear that, i just loaded my first extension: GL_ARB_point_parameters (a short one and easy to test that it works:D)

just having now some problems passing array parameters.. grmbl.. well, i’ll get that working, too:D

In response to Actual Game Developing
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157 Apr 09, 2003 at 06:51

very nice ideas. sounds fun and interesting too.
We’ll have to start, as you mentioned, in small parts. The whole thing needs planning:

Gotta start with a scope: How much does one want to do?
Package evaluation: Use an existing engine? Write one from scratch? (very important to decide) Hybrid? What gets us a game that we WANT to play in the shortest amount of time? What kind of user supported dev do we want? IS everything in code? Are the levels done in Max? Do we want to write our own editor? Do we want to go with an existing model format? How fast do we want it? How fast do we think we could do it? You get the picture, half of the work is figuring out what the right questions are.

Then you move into some kind of design phase: Now you know what you want to do, and possibly what tools, possibly the timeframe. Now you do technical design and game design. That encompasses alot. Need to figure out what the game is about, what kind of game play. That “functional design” needs to be mirrored in the technical design. Are we going to use OpenGL or DirectX? If you have a new model format, what are it’s specs? What kind of information does another programmer need to know about it to write an exporter? The level editor, what kind of files does it save, etc? The scripting (if any) support, does that engine need to be developed from scratch? What C++ functions do we want to expose to scripting? How much control do we want to allow the script engine? Netplay? TCP? UDP? Session state of the clients tracked at the client, on the server? Both? Do we have coding guidelines, will comments be handled in the same way throughout. Will someone review the code before comitting it ot a build? Source control? HOW will builds get done? Are there Acceptance criteria for modules? Basically, you take any lists you determined in a scoping excercise and you describe in detail those elements, every element you can think of, writing psuedo code to describe the process if needed. Do flow charts. Mockup GUI in photoshop, POC models in 3ds or whatever, probably concept art for future models

Then, and only then, do we start real coding. Sure, during scope and design, one probably write test harnesses and POC’s, psuedo code, mockup or even partially functional screens. Now you are in the Development phase. One does all the REALLY hard parts in Design, now one implements it. Code the engine (or modify it). Build the models and levels for testing, and placeholder while the artists go out and do real models, build the guis in layered photoshop so the programmer just has to cut and paste elements, follow the flowcharts. Implementing is the easy part if you’ve done the homework. You’ll probably revisit the design several times. Count on it. Count on it changing some too. Somethings that look great on paper just end up taking 5 times as long as they need to and either need yanked, or redesigned.

Then, testing. Both ongoing unit testing by individual programmers of there individual modules while coding them, and system testing, where you start stringing modules together. Bug reporting, priority. Fixing. Some of this can be going on while other parts are still being coded. Say you finish the SP experience you can test that, the model importing and the map making while still working on the net stuff. Eventually, you’ll have something you can public alpha, then beta, then….

Finally, release, and expect to need to patch as a whole NEW group of people encounter your code.

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101 Apr 09, 2003 at 05:25

thats supposed to mean exactly what you hear in every other thread if you push in to flame (wich i ment you all where). don’t read it! :D

there’s no none, because if you haven’t used ds yet, why shall you poll for what you used it? :D

but okay.. i got it wrong (just read the m$flaming thread before that one..) btw, none would not mean i have not used ds yet, but i haven’t used it for any of these choises yet. nothing would mean i haven’t used ds at all yet:D none (of the above) nothing (at all) :D i’m nitpicking. its so early here.. wanna continue sleeping, but have to work yet:( In response to Actual Game Developing 0 101 Apr 09, 2003 at 04:11 played earth and beyond? sounds similar …i like! I’m VERY interested in this development. keep the ideas flowing. :yes: In response to Actual Game Developing 0 101 Apr 08, 2003 at 22:23 Yeah a big game would be cool. I was thinking action is cool but I want to be doing it for a reason, not just lets blast some stuff and buy the way there is some plot too. Maybe you should start with an inherited ship that can go not very far. You could use the ship for a couple of things cargo firstly you could buy a mining thing so you could mine minerals and sell them. You could buy a better gun and rent yourself out as a protector of local cargo shipments. You could become a trtader going between markets. Then as you progress you can specialise and get better equipment or become an alrounder. So in the end you could run a protection buisness that protects trade routes or mines. You could become a mining buisness which has to hire protection and traders to take stuff to market. You could become a trader who takes stuff from market to market making money. Or you could generalise yourself. I would also like a way in which you could be corrupt, stelling money from others stelling the stuff you are trying to protect, killing mining places. Of course there are consequences (word get round, etc.). This would make the game play quite deep, I think (not sure though). And as you get better you get access to better ships that first allow you to travel outside your vicinity then off world to the local solar system then to other solar systems. You could win when you become of of the top 5% of people in the universe in monetry propety. Sounds like it is a bit ambitious esp. because Tertris is the best thing I have programmed to this point and I didn’t finish that. I guess this could be done in stages though. It is always fun to dream. Hmm, maybe we should have a think and cobble together some stuff we might need, fringe In response to Actual Game Developing 0 101 Apr 08, 2003 at 17:09 the two things I would like to see in, just because I like them: * The ability to dip in and out without learning much more than the controls. This means an action oriented game unfortunately, but that’s just my preference. * A large world. Not necessarily comples, but e.g instead of 2 or 3 different worlds, have 30 or 40 worlds that are similar. In response to Actual Game Developing 0 101 Apr 08, 2003 at 15:30 i’d be interested in joining a group project, too. allthough i have to admit that i have no real idea for a game. fringes idea sounds nice though. i just finished school last week so i should have plenty of time in the near future to contribute to such a project. 0 101 Apr 08, 2003 at 12:58 @davepermen if you don’t mind, you can use the none-mode: don’t move in here! biggrin.gif what’s that suppose to mean? :wtf: @davepermen no, really, i really dislike the m$==bull*beep* ignorance of some in here. thats childish.

easy partner! nobody on this thread said anything about m$being bull*beep* I was just curious why there wasn’t a none option. I’d actually LIKE to try out the DirectX package - just for experience sake. 0 101 Apr 08, 2003 at 10:48 if you don’t mind, you can use the none-mode: don’t move in here! :D no, really, i really dislike the m$==bull*beep* ignorance of some in here. thats childish.

well, its not my player, my friend coded it. and its part of the aegis sound system (*beep*:D), so its not really free to use..

but on the other side, it has some great features. it doesn’t care from where to open a file, hd, network, ram, internet, and can play them all (if the stream source is fast enough.. wich is the case for about all modem connections for .ogg files, for example)..

its really funny:D

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 08, 2003 at 09:58

I think what everyone loved about elite was the ability to land on planets. But I suppose this is too much to take on in a 1st group project?

In response to Actual Game Developing
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101 Apr 08, 2003 at 09:38

Ideas are hard :confused:

I like the idea of a ship based game (ships are easy to draw). I am a bit tired of just shotting things though maybe we could makeit resource collecting or trade orientated. For instance you own a minning ship you start bvy collecting resources and taking them toi the local “market” through enimies or tricky tunnels or something. You can upgrade yourminning efforts with automated robots and you can seek out new minning areas but you have to protect yourold areas from theives with robot dronesorusing your guns on your own ship. Don’t know really sort of an elite clone-ish Iguess,

fringe

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101 Apr 08, 2003 at 09:08

exactly!

In response to GL terrain demo preview.
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101 Apr 08, 2003 at 00:55

very nice! thanks for sharing - i myself am actually working on an LOD scheme for my terrain. it’s nice to know somebody else is working on a similar project.

keep up the great work.

:yes:

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